The Heathian Dollar

[Lothaudus]

I am going to work on a paper currency for H&H. Simply put, it's a piece of parchment with a code written on it, and it's worth in copper coins.

So uhhh... Why not just use copper coins?

Behold as settlers ignore the purpose of currency, particularly the kind that isn't a pain to carry around. (Granted, I don't know whether a stack can hold infinite coins, but a single paper would still save on hauling various types.)

So what happens if I have a piece of paper that says I have 10,000 Heathen dollars and I need to trade with someone who only wants 2,000 of those?

Do I cut my note in half? (I'm assuming you're aware that notes don't stack, so you'd be filling your inventory up with a hundred pieces of paper under any other method.)

But since society still runs on a barter system...maybe you should try having currency represent bars of metal and/or other common goods, for the time being.

...

Like I said, right now it's pretty pointless, because everyone just barters with goods. Anyone trading for metal will probably use it to build farm tools and swords. If and when people actually start hoarding metal simply as a trade good, having a neutral bank involved would make the hauling and trading a lot easier, and safer if the bank is legitimate.

People trade goods because they need the goods. Not some kind of hokey "value" they represent. If I'm trading Pearls for Cave Bulbs, it's because I need Cave Bulbs and I've got excess Pearls. If I replace that exchange with money, I need to know there's a buyer somewhere who will exchange the money (be that coins or whatever) that I got from the trade with a sufficient quantity of Cave Bulbs that I was after in the first place.

People would not only need to "hoard metal" but every other good as well. I would then need some way to exchange those goods for money. Not just metal for money but every good I can possible make would need an equivalent "cash in" value at the bank.

Money only works in a system where there is a supply of money. In "the real world" money is the primary form of payment for work performed (it goes straight into your bank account when you get yourselves one of those job things). In Haven & Hearth, no such mechanism exists. The bank would need to provide that mechanism. To do so effectively means the bank would need to be operational 24/7 so that the line of people out the front can receive their cash for the goods they exchange.

Such a bank (a massive hoard of goods) would then become PRIORITY ONE for attack. Only a bank run by highly skilled players would be trusted as being able to stop the raiders and those highly skilled players know it would be a waste of time (who wants to manage all that shit?). As can be seen, the idea is being put forward by morons because they are suggesting things like "walls" for security. "Walls" are not security.

Fuckers need to learn to alt-vault.

Allow me to explain: An item stored in a container (no matter the container) can be stolen, regardless of how many walls that container is behind. An item stored in the inventory of a character, when that character is logged out, is completely untouchable and can never be stolen. The only security risk is when that character is logged in. Something which wouldn't be done unless it was safe to do so.

Now that we have security, Hearthlings need to know where they can spend their money. Well, in order to spend money, they need to be able to exchange the money they got with different goods. Who now has the largest amount of goods in the world? The bank. What you're really talking about setting up is the largest trading operation in the known world. Not a bank.

So then what are people doing? They wouldn't be coming to the bank to exchange their goods for money, they'd be looking to immediately exchange those goods for other goods that the bank would have in store. Because why travel all that way to the bank without coming back with something your village needs? And weyhey! We're right back to where we started: People trading goods for goods and not money.

[Bl1tzX]

What are you going to do with all that metal you will gain from giving people pieces of parchment then?
(Not like you would get any, of course.)

[RPGenie]

On the contrary, every Hearthian dollar will be worth five British pounds.

[Escaleone]

@Lothandus: Yes, having a readily accessible bank at which to get change (and actually cash in on metal) would be pretty much necessary, even if tons of different "bills" are in circulation.

As for the rest...

* The point of currency is to allow trade in societies that don't regularly need to smelt down their valuables. People keep metal even when they don't need it, just because it's a widely valuable product; eventually, they get sick of exchanging 500 piles of metal coins for a house, so people start trading on good faith.

* Right, there's no way to ensure absolute security short of sending your stuff to an alternate meta-dimension (although hacking and password theft still exist, while we're at it). Banks get robbed, forts get raided. This happens whether or not a bank exists, and the average newbie might do well to leave their things with someone who knows more about protecting them.

* As for goods, again, currency works in places where people exchange it for goods and services with each other. If every single item were allowed as currency, this plan would result in a giant trading company, rather than a bank. (Though it'd be nice as a safe deposit bank, for that matter, alternate dimensions not withstanding.)

Anyway, I should probably stop defending someone else's idea for central government...

[spectacle]

Look, the reason metal works so well as currency in the real world is that you can use (make jewelry and other pretty stuff) and still have it (you can always melt down your jewelry and trade it away later).

This is not how it is in H&H. Here, even gold and silver are consumables just like chantrelles and branches. Once used to make something it's gone forever. Precious metals are valuable because they are rare, but any metal that's traded with is immediately taken off the market and used for crafting. If there ever where to be a surplus of coins circulating in the economy, it would be because the metal supply had outstripped demand, and thus those coins would be essentially worthless.

[Froggeryz]

what if I copy the code, will you keep track of everyone in possession of a code too?

[Fjorn]

There are two barriers to the acceptance of any money, of any kind, in this game...

First, the money has to be worthless...
So gold is right out... as is any of the metals with a quality, even q1 metals can be used for things like plows, cellars, and all sorts of things where q doesn't matter...
That leaves silver... silver is not useless though.... just almost

Okay, so coins are out... so how about your idea?
Well, I get a note worth "1 gold bar" copy the code down, make 10 more parchments and pay 11 different people with that code... the site says "Yeah, it's real" and then as soon as everyone figures this out, nobody will believe it is worth anything


Which leads me to my second point... if money has to be worthless... that means it is up to the community, as a whole, to accept it as legal tender... to know that if I sell this guy 4 bars of cast iron, that the money he gave me, I can use to buy what I need...
I'm not even talking about the same price here, I am talking that in order for me to accept this handful of silver coins as payment, I need to know, beyond a doubt, that someone else, selling what I need, will take these coins

And, frankly, with the distrust this game breeds... that is never going to happen

[Garlicman]

I'd say the money is something that could arise from the needs of the community itself, not something that is created at somebody's whim.

[Granger]

Apart from all technical problems with the idea:

What is the bigger crime: To rob a bank, or to found one?

[Reynolds]

You are incredibly stupid, in a game where coins are barely used because of the annoyance related to them you want to make them even more confusing to use?
You're also taking away the one use of them, using coins at stalls not to mention all the other holes in your idea.

I love you too, Delly.