The Middle-East and Arab-Israeli debate

[jorb]

lol. Good men sleep soundly in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to violence on their behalf. You are here today because your ancestors have decided to kill, rather than to be killed. Whether you decide to acknowledge that or not is your problem. Your fundamental principles are beautiful follies, do not give up on them.

[Elirian]

lol. Good men sleep soundly in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to violence on their behalf. You are here today because your ancestors have decided to kill, rather than to be killed. Whether you decide to acknowledge that or not is your problem. Your fundamental principles are beautiful follies, do not give up on them.

I intend to serve once I finish school this year actually Note that I don't suggest that kill or be killed is always a false dichotomy, just that I think it is so in this case.

More to the point, I think what we are talking about here is called an is-ought problem. Just because something is the way it is, does not mean that is the way it ought to be, or even needs to be. I have recognized that there is a point where men revert to bestial action, and that it differs for each man. Some have seen such reversion as so revolting that they have paid with their lives to avoid it (which in my opinion is by definition a nobler purpose than any national border or ideal that so many have given their lives for, but again, that's another topic, and highlights my own hypocrisy, since im prepared for the one, but not the 'more noble'). Should we not admire and strive to emulate such men though? Are we unable to move beyond the law of the jungle? We can bend gravity to our will but not evolution?

However, I'm not suggesting that all humanity martyr themselves to some ideal of avoiding brutality, only that this is not a case where such a decision is even required. There are other solutions, even if they have spent decades going nowhere, does that make them worth giving up on? Is it simply too difficult to achieve peace non-violently?

[Peter]

This thread is the equivalent of taking up a flyswatter and going after a hornet's nest the size of a minivan. That said, and dispite my better judgement, I did want to make two points: Firstly, The Isralie government is not The Jewish People, so let's avoid confusing the two.

Second, I have very little concern one way or the other about the exact ethnicity of whomever it is that's occupying some specific square mile of inhospitable desert. My concern with the politics of the region stems solely from the fact that my government has for some reason taken an interest in this pretty much arbitrary piece of land. With the backing of the US, it seems that Israel feels invincible, and we have to cash their checks.

Of course, it's hard to get clear international news here, not because of censoring, but because the news media is too busy with celebrity trivia. And the people are too ignorant to care, since all the educational funding is being drained to pay for the military needed to "keep the peace in the east."

So, I say, the US should take it's military back from all over the world, get rid of 90% of it, and use the huge gain in wealth to actually become a first-world nation, rather than the cut-rate global police force it seems to be heading for. (Some may say that without the money spent on the military-industrial complex, the US would go into a depression. What do you say to trippled social spending combined with a 50% tax cut?)

Also, perhaps this structure may go some way to clarifying Jorb's art style...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weizmann_I ... of_Science

Oh, and I was curious, how is Sweden participating in the great cause of holding Zion? IKEA tanks? Meatball rations? Or are there phalanxes of horn-helmeted axe-weilding barbarians at the gates of Jeruselem?

[jorb]

U.S.A gtfo the world

Yes, I agree with this. Let the rest of the world take care of itself. You can't save it, let it go.

Edit: Not that I'm a big fan of Obama, quite the contrary, but this song is pretty good. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jrHPjm4qKM

[jorb]

I think this is the same kind of shit I get when I say the US was right to drop the bomb on Japan. Wars suck, lets not have any illusions about them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjyka1gkodo

[Peter]

Oh there was annother thing. One reason quite a few Staters support Israel is because it's existence is required for the Bible's end-of-the-world parable to be true. They appear to believe that it's destruction will signal the rapture and such. The rapture idea sprang out of a sentence or two in one of the more recent biblical additions.

Interestingly, one vauge sentance in a poorly-translated book decended from arabic sheapard's legends may have as much effect on world politics as reality does.

And yes, this does mean that many Staters (though certainly not all religious folk) will be dancing in the streets when someone nukes that place.

And people wonder why I want to move to Canada.

[Pyre]

And people wonder why I want to move to Canada.

Come on up, we'll take anyone. Don't think it's paradise though heh (unless you make 30k CAN or less a year or can "lie" yourself into it). All the flapjacks and back bacon you can eat tho, and the best beer in the world .

[burgingham]

... and the best beer in the world .

Sry for offtopic but: LOOOOOOL

[Wolfang]

I wish the zionists had chosen another place to settle, for example patagonia or some other abandoned place where no one would give a shit.
Not like there was ever, any indigenous population there, or any prominant not-already-exterminated population.