Botting Tutorials for Newbies DEBATE

[Flame]

If i could have the trust that then devs will repair that game soon, i dont mind if it will be broken.
This is not, so i wanna keep play a normal game until you two will have new time to fix a broken game.
This is quite normal.


Player that broke a game that will remain broken, is player masochism.

[Patchouli_Knowledge]

Granted humans are not the most moral beings in the game and if given the chance, many will do anything to win at all cost at various degree of the effort and morality. It can be something genuine such as using the well often used leather bug, or something like the movement penalty to botting to something more shady such as having a trojan client distributed (and there will always be people that are fooled) to downright compromising the database. Action is supposedly suppose to discourage some actions from taking place.

• An example is the curiosity system. One feature that is looked at is its mean of curbing the botting trend that occured in world 4. Albeit it was stopping it at some point but people figured out that the world became alt oriented due to the nature of the curiosity system and end up circumventing it by botting alt factories.
• The developers had a policy of nuking any illegal vaults out there that are completely invulnerable as in using indestructible objects to make it entirely unrammable or making it so you cannot place a ram using rammable only object (brick wall, crossroad). The problem is that the simplest topology of vaults as it is have a huge defense per effort ratio and attacks needs to place enormous effort to siege one if the defenders are vigilant and this is not even considering vaults that take multiple days to penetrate. Now with the developers' inactivities, illegal vaults are appearing and still remains today.
• Clients are becoming more and more sophisticated with passing time and I believe the developers are not going to be doing anything in regards to the client of now whether improvement on it or curbing shady modifications on it. It started with larger window size which people cheered with before darkness removal was added as well as an IRC connection (which was later discontinued). Then we had clients that started passively mapping the region around them and programs that will piece the maps together as well.

Not sure if anyone sees it like this but there is different equilibrium within this game that also needs to be observed and not limited to the ones I listed.

• Combat: Player vs Toon significance.- The significance of the player skills compare to how it scales against differences of the power between individual toons (Unarmed Combat, Melee Combat). World 2 was mostly weighted towards the toon though unfortunate I was not present long enough to really break it apart to truly see it.. With the introduction of the new combat system, World 3 (before square root in the formula) still had much of the equilibrium weighted mostly towards the toon as there was not a diminishing return on combat skills save the LP cost scaling. With the discovery of how lethal a ranger bow can be, it is possible that the equilibrum was weighted even more towards the toon at another area as a single idle moment can spell death to a character. It didn't really help that most people did not utilize movement penalty or fixed defense reduction either. With the reduction of base damage to the ranger bow and squart root in the weighted formula, the scale started weighing closer towards but not favoring player skills. The curiosity system is when the equilibrium now weighted in favor towards player skills as high level characters are not very valid anymore as characters of moderate combat skills are easy to reproduce. As movement combat is being recognized as well as fixed defense reduction, toon significance has lost much of its meaning where combat skills of the character is a much lower importance and where a 200 UA/MC still has a decent chance of losing to a character with only 40 UA/MC.
• Main vs alts- Alts were always used in this game but more as a supplement to mutually exclusive jobs such as miner vs farmer. However people learn to not place their eggs in one basket and split their combat characters and crafting character and you have one with a large combat skill while the other with low one but a huge crafting skill safely behind walls. As the significance towards toons started to recede when square root is introduced, alts started to become more important as quantity of fighters are more emphasized. The sealing factor is when the curiosity system is introduced when creating a main was mostly considered a recreational occupation and alts fighters were heavily emphasized.
• Peaceful vs Raider- This is a fairly controversial equilibrium and may be subject to biased opinion from either side and perhaps even me as I am only human despite trying to see this through a birds eye view and my information may not be entirely accurate. The equilibrium was constantly being weighted from one side to another depending on the faction that is is prevailing within the world (ex. Wayneville, Sodom, AD, Dis, Ainran). I was not well versed on politics for some times but I believe world 3 was leaning towards the peaceful side as Sodom and Bottleneck policed their respective supergrid of crimes. Boredom caused some of them to start hunting down criminals elsewhere making it fairly impractical to be a criminal in other regions as well. Even more before brickbashing was ineffective, vaults started appearing which criminals tend to use to protect themselves from being summoned. This is more emphasized when brickbashing is now ineffective securing their defenses and opening leeway for more complex vaults. as of today with many of the non-raider veterans not playing, his equilibrium weighted towards the raiders.

PS: This is a somewhat rushed post so my apologies if there are a lot of holes in it.

[burgingham]

I would be super curious to find out what people are actually using bots for, truth be told. Whenever we've looked at the user statistics an overwhelming majority of the users seem to come from unique IP-addresses, which I've taken as an indication that the world is at least to a very large extent populated by actual players (IP-address is a very heuristic data point in the context, of course, but nevertheless). Foraging seems like an obvious application for bots, especially given how hearth fires work presently, farming I would also assume is being botted to one extent or another.

I think the idea that client modifications should not be released because they break the game is a bit silly. If client modifications can break the game then the game deserves to be broken.

On quite some botting issues I wrote you PMs already I think. We mostly had what I would call little scripts and not so much bots. Selecting areas to farm or to mine with a tool similar to the old land measuring tool iis what has always been my favourite. Also small things like autofiling curds into trays, seeds in troughs etc.

Destroying hf, have a log in script, check radar for Edelweiss or Bluebell, log off, wilderness spawn, repeat.

Complete farm botting is easy too especially with barter stands having a basically unlimited storage.

Paving is probably one of the easiest things to bot. A Silkfarm is easy to make too. Not even speaking of people who have automatied the entire daily routine of at least a hermitage. That is an exception and shouldn't be taken into consideration too nmuch for future development. There will always be people who are crazy enough (no offense guys, I mean that in a good way) to develop such routines.

I don't think botting is tied much to IP adresses though since many people won't use more than one bot at a time. There are such things though as Darki botting our flax farming with 8 clients simultaneously and similar stuff, but in general I am not sure wether you can get any reliable info from checking IPs. The raising of alt armies which was kinda the topic here can be done with 1 client at a time since you only need to auto log in and refill curios, log off. Even a food script with plowing/drinking is easy to bring into this.

Dataslycers little combat bot was a topic elsewhere before I believe and we actually thought about linking it to a patrol bot we used to walk around our walls all day. That bot only notified us if it spotted someone, but you could as well have set it to autoaggro and run the little combat scripts. Do that with a full blown patrol unit of 10 or more chars and even good fighters won't have much of a choice other than to run away.

Long list, but I don't think botting is the major concern of the game right now. The wilderness spawn thing needs fixing and of course it is too easy to raise alt armies, but I did that without any bot myself.

[jorb]

I don't think botting is tied much to IP adresses though since many people won't use more than one bot at a time.

Of course, I realize that.

You guys botting farming is quite understandable given how much of a chore void of meaningful decisions farming presently is, and the same can be said for silk. Botting paving and harvesting actions is also quite understandable and not particularly game breaking. I think fighting alts and the consequent botting of them is an effect of the curio system, and that it would probably be much less attractive if characters weren't quite as throw-away. I could also see mining being botted, as the mine supports are trivial to place correctly presently.

All in all I don't see much that can't be blamed on how we incentivize players through our systems. Those issues -- to the extent that they are issues -- are entirely ours to deal with, I'd say.

[Potjeh]

I'd say that the whole "throwaway characters" thing is overblown. Sure, people have multiple characters, but it still hurts when you lose one. Well, as much as killing a character can hurt when the production base is untouchable.

[sabinati]

i've seen mining bots that just make s-tunnels until they find ore

[bmjclark]

Ya those are pretty common. Wouldn't trust it to much if you actually cared about ur char, but every one uses mining alts anyways =s

[Oddity]

Long list, but I don't think botting is the major concern of the game right now. The wilderness spawn thing needs fixing and of course it is too easy to raise alt armies, but I did that without any bot myself.

And siege system.

Do we (or the devs) know what they want to do with the siege system?

[Kaios]

DESKTOP TOWER DEFENSE

[Flame]

...Basically i feel really weird that a dev say to players "Ehy dude, destroy this game, it deserve it, and make that it become unplayable!"




Let us decide this, we are the player that will suffer the changes of the comunity.
Me, like a player, say "No thanks, there are lots of problems in this fucking game, don't add one more."

Few people use bots and those people are the same people that are enough strong to kill most of the noobs, so ther's no difference for who is playing this game not to become the best one in game.
But if also any random noob will be able to bot, well, there will be no game anymore anywere.


Do you people love so much riun everything you can?