The U.S. Goverment

[Monkeytofu]

No schools were established in Africa, no railroads were built, no rule of law maintained, no mining projects undertaken, no dams built, no suez canal, no hospitals, no missionaries teaching the people how to read, Gordon never taught any Ugandans how to burn bricks, no steam ships were brought to the continent. Teaching people how to read, write and count was not a European concern. Europeans did not believe that they had a mission to uplift these places.

The thing is, no one in Africa needed or for that matter wanted Europe to do that. You're implying as if Africa was a giant savage continent with no rules of law, no economic projects, no education already going on.

Europe first and foremost wanted to exploit Africa's resources and people. No one would doubt some people thought they were doing the 'right' thing by colonizing Africa, but I'm sure Africa didn't think about it that way.

You're implying that European systems are the 'right' ones and that somehow bringing those to Africa was a great thing.

We can bring about eternal peace by forcing countries to adopt western style democracy. The biggest problem in the world is that country X, Y or Z does not tow the democratic line.

We can bring about eternal peace by forcing countries to adopt western style society. The biggest problem in the world is that country X, Y or Z does not tow the European line.

[Potjeh]

And Africa is such a shithole now because black people just weren't smart enough to maintain the wonderful society that Europeans built them?

And I am the one who can't find my shoes because I'm blinded by ideology? Things are never that simple.

Ah, so that's why you can't see what the British did to the Zulu?

[jorb]

And Africa is such a shithole now because black people just weren't smart enough to maintain the wonderful society that Europeans built them?

And I am the one who can't find my shoes because I'm blinded by ideology? Things are never that simple.

Ah, so that's why you can't see what the British did to the Zulu?

The poor, peaceful Zulus who for millenia had lived in peace and harmony with nature on the rugged cape?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantu_migr ... nturies.29

Don't try to teach me history.

[Potjeh]

Now where did I suggest such a thing? Of course they were bastards, every civilization worth anything is bastards. I'm just saying that the British involvement in South Africa was about as beneficial to the native population as the Vandals involvement in Rome. It was certainly not a case of the Wise White Man bringing peace and prosperity to the Savage Native.

[jorb]

The Zulus were no more a native population to the cape than the Dutch were.

EDIT: Or is it perhaps the blackness of their skins that determines their nativity to the land? There are no white africans?

Now we seem to have reached the crux of the matter.

[burgingham]

We can bring about eternal peace by forcing countries to adopt western style democracy. The biggest problem in the world is that country X, Y or Z does not tow the democratic line.

Things are never that simple.

[Tonkyhonk]

The thing is, no one in Africa needed or for that matter wanted Europe to do that.

We can bring about eternal peace by forcing countries to adopt western style society. The biggest problem in the world is that country X, Y or Z does not tow the European line.

+1
invaders never show respect for what already exists, blinded by their own standards, and culture gets lost.

the same thing can be said about the game play on H&H sometimes.
very generous experienced players offer everything to newbs and ruin the first hand joy. the players who accepted everything offered often have hard times understanding how the game works, though some of them can level up so fast to catch up with others sometimes that way.

[Potjeh]

Well, native was an honest mistake, I'm not that familiar with the history of Africa. The point is, the people there had a functioning civilization, and the British smashed it to pieces so they can strip the land of it's raw resources. Frankly, I don't understand how you can seriously think that colonialism was a net benefit for the colonies, when this kind of behaviour was the norm. And I really don't see how it's in any country's interest to have foreign companies ship out it's mineral wealth and use it to produce finished goods in their own countries. Do you think that Sweden benefited from the German mining operations on it's soil in WW2?

To stray a bit off Africa, since I'm not that familiar with it, do you think that Spanish colonialism was a net benefit to Incas and Aztecs?

[pyrale]

The Zulus were no more a native population to the cape than the Dutch were.

and I guess the English kicked the Dutch's asses because they wanted to bring education to them ?

[Tonkyhonk]

before inca and aztec talks come... mayibuye i Africa!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bF_sqa--GI