by al » Wed May 04, 2011 2:44 am pyrale wrote:Syria funds/helps religious terrorist organizations. Egypt was ok on that. Irak and Lybia, not so much.
That is not true. And even if it was, it doesn't make them any different from the US.
pyrale wrote:Those two were personal dictatorship
It is better to live under a dictatorship than an idiocracy.
pyrale wrote:Ghaddafi was a pan-arabist befor turning to supporter of african union, in the process naming his son Saif al-Islam. Saddam Hussein used religion in his cult of personality.
They are polititians. They pretended to be what they were not to get support and influence.
pyrale wrote:Point is, though, I still don't understand why you're pointing this out : You don't need religion to be a ruthless dictator.
No, my point is a little bit different. Those goverments had/has no interest in supporting religious fundamentalism or terrorism (US is allegedly fight), they fought and acted against it, and what is more important did not let fundamentalists to settle in their country. In spite of that the US attacked Lybia and Iraq and incited disorders in Egypt and Syria making situation there far more favourable for fundamentalist group to settle there or even come to power. And two known allies of the US in Middle East are Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, countries which are proven supportes of islamism and terrorism.
pyrale wrote:As for prosperity and social wellbeing, except maybe Egypt (which is a controversial case), all the countries you quoted are/were obvious dictatorships turning their weapons against their people. So unless you think killing people makes them feel better...
Every government turns its weapons against its people. Organized violence is the basis of the modern state. The US or the UK are no different.
pyrale wrote:By the way, if you look at HDI numbers, you'll see that they incorporate GDP in their calculation, which heavily pushes oil producers with low pop (lybia, saudi arabia, norway, for instance). besides, I don't see where you saw their indice was comparable to western europe countries (which are .1 to .15 above).
Where did I say Western Europe? Europe is at least twice larger.
Some facts about Libya:
- Libya’s GDP per capita is $ 14,192.
- For each family member the state pays a $ 1,000 yearly subsidy.
- Unemployed are paid 730 $ monthly.
- The salary of a hospital nurse is $ 1,000.
- For every newborn $ 7,000 is paid.
- Newly weds are donated $ 64,000 to buy an apartment.
- To open a private business one gets a one-time financial aid of 20 000 $.
- Large taxes and duties are prohibited.
- Education and medicine are free.
- Education and Internships abroad are at government expense.
- There are chain stores for large families with symbolic prices for basic foodstuffs.
- For the sale of products past their expiry date large fines are levied, in some cases detention by the police is foreseen.
- A number of pharmacies have free dispensing.
- Counterfeiting medication is considered a major crime.
- No rental payments.
- No payment for electricity for the population.
- The sale and use of alcohol is prohibited, "prohibition" is a law.
- Loans for buying a car and an apartment are given at no interest.
- Real estate services are prohibited.
- If an individual decides to buy a car up to 50% of the price is paid by the state, to militia guards it donates 65% of the price.
- Gasoline is cheaper than water. A liter of gasoline costs $ 0.14. (2) The profits from oil sale were spent on the population welfare and rising life standards.
- Gaddafi has amassed more than 143 tons of gold. He planned to introduced the dollar-free zone use a gold dinar instead of currency in settlements with other countries.
- In Libya, much money is spent on irrigation by the country's groundwater, the amount of which is about 100 annual runoffs of the Nile. By its scale, this water project has earned itself the name of “the Eighth Wonder of the World." It provides 5-million cubic meters of water a day across the desert, greatly increasing the irrigated area. 4,000 kilometers of pipes are buried deep into the ground to secure them from the heat. All that was needed for the project was carried out mostly by Libya herself. Nothing was bought in the First World, which has never helped developing countries to rise from a supine position, and if it does, then with the further enslavement of the receiving country. With this water project, Libya was able to start a real "green revolution", in the literal sense, that would solve a lot of problems with food in Africa. And most importantly, it would ensure stability and economic independence. At one time, Gaddafi said that Libya's water project would be "the strongest response to America, which accuses Libya of supporting terrorism."
- In 2010 Gaddafi made a motion to the UN General Assembly to investigate the circumstances of the US and NATO aggression against Iraq and bring to justice those guilty of mass human rights abuse. He also submitted a draft resolution on the liability of former colonial states to their former colonies for the exploitation during the colonial period, and on compensation payments thereupon.
