Running Away in Combat

[bitza]

let's draw up some sample scenarios for what i'm suggesting:

let's say "pvp champ" runs across "noobie mcrabbitfur" out and about, and starts a land fight. let's assume here that they both have equal amounts of equal quality water on hand (though they don't). pvp champ has 2x the UA of noobie, and starts the fight.

pvp champ punches noobie for like 70% of his def bar. noobie freaks out and takes off running and drinking water. this is his only window of opportunity to escape, as once champ lands that second punch which knocks through his def and gives him damage (no matter how small), he's done running. walk speed only, now. pvp champ will probably take him down anyway, but noobie still has a reasonable window to get away. pvp champ will need a few jumps, or a NPNG, or thunders + bee sting, or something, but he'll figure out a way to get it done.

now, let's take the case where noobie got extremely lucky with his bluebells and flotsams and has 2x the UA of pvp champ. champ will go in, but punches will only take off what like 15 or 20% of def bar, or something like that? this means that if noobie still wants to run, champ will have to get off that many more punches and offense moves before noobie is done with run speed. thus, an incentive to higher UA in this situation.

it's left as an exercise to the reader to extrapolate into 2v1 situations, and so on, but off the top of my head i don't see any particular problems coming up with it set up this way. feel free to offer any bad counterexamples or exceptions that you may be able to think up.

[Kaios]

I think a change in moving speed is a good idea but I'm confused as to what exactly causes it? Is it the punch itself or the breaking of the defense bar? I mean it makes sense realistically, you get punched or sliced while you're running and it's going to hurt and most likely slow you down, but if it's just the process of your defense bar becoming zero I could see it as an issue only really in terms of what is realistic and what is not. If a person is using a move which lowers their defense and it happens to hit zero during that time, are they stuck in walk mode although really they may not have actually been hit at all yet?

[bitza]

I thought about it a bit more though, and i really think that the hamstring move is the best solution like suggested by rye and jiochan and a few other people. Before if you wanted to catch someone who was running, you got 2 coins and stung them moving. Hamstring would be the same.

hamstring move is bad, because it's an automatic death sentence for anyone involved in a 2v1.

i would have my buddy (alt ) spam hamstring over and over on the target, while i'm moving at run speed, stacking thunders, darting in and out with op knocks, and doing basically whatever i wanted to the guy because he moves that much slower than me. it would be not particularly difficult for 2 100 ua guys to take down a 1000 ua this way.

[bitza]

I think a change in moving speed is a good idea but I'm confused as to what exactly causes it? Is it the punch itself or the breaking of the defense bar? I mean it makes sense realistically, you get punched or sliced while you're running and it's going to hurt and most likely slow you down, but if it's just the process of your defense bar becoming zero I could see it as an issue only really in terms of what is realistic and what is not. If a person is using a move which lowers their defense and it happens to hit zero during that time, are they stuck in walk mode although really they may not have actually been hit at all yet?

i may have explained it poorly. it would be the first SHP damage you take, not the def bar, that causes run speed to become unavailable

[Kaios]

Ah, then perhaps it is just as simple as there being levels for run speed depending on your HHP just as there is in Stamina. For example, at 75% of your total HHP you are unable to sprint, at 50% you are stuck in walk mode and so on. Basically you are hurt and can't maneuver correctly until you recover and that makes sense to me.

I say HHP because I don't think your SHP should have any effect on this.

Edit: I forgot to mention this would be in conjunction with the idea that players should deal additional HHP damage as if your character were full martial. A punch should deal SHP until SHP is gone. A sword should deal SHP and some HHP as should a bow.

[Potjeh]

What about grapple instead of hamstring? Locks in place both the character who used it and the character on whom it was used, for ~20 seconds or until somebody dies. That way no-UA alts would promptly die if they're used to grapple. So it's not spammable, it should require (and consume) a full attack bar, a point or two of advantage or something.

[bitza]

What about grapple instead of hamstring? Locks in place both the character who used it and the character on whom it was used, for ~20 seconds or until somebody dies. That way no-UA alts would promptly die if they're used to grapple. So it's not spammable, it should require (and consume) a full attack bar, a point or two of advantage or something.

still pretty much a death sentence in a 2v1, unless the 1 is way ahead of on UA

[NaoWhut]

Good thing you did not quote the one sentence that made your entire rant completely useless.

Ahh, gotcha, you added that in before i'd posted
but after i'd read it

reasons i like the change to movement combat: it makes industry & non directly pvp activities a bit more important.
i dislike the change to swords, i quite liked the way that if your defense was down you were dead.

as for chasing it would be really cool to see a group of attackers herd their victim against cliffs/walls to trap them :p
have you tried that yet?

Well, lately i've been rather bored with combat
because if i get in any danger i just leave, lag
or not i wont die. Been only really foraging and
afking sliders waiting for seeds.

Molder was running from 3 people, he ran around
a cliff for about 10 minutes while waiting for a
friend to drive up with a boat and then he just
sailed away, we had people on either side of the
land mass in boats to stop from swimming, we
had a roadblock, we had buckets of ql 70 water.
He could safely run in circles and was never in
any danger of being killed by people with 2-3x
his UA... yes, we've tried to herd people to cliffs
and cage them in, however the only way to kill
someone is to completely encase them in people.

What about grapple instead of hamstring? Locks in place both the character who used it and the character on whom it was used, for ~20 seconds or until somebody dies. That way no-UA alts would promptly die if they're used to grapple. So it's not spammable, it should require (and consume) a full attack bar, a point or two of advantage or something.

That'd be instant death for the runner

[Potjeh]

IDK, entering static combat with no attack bar is pretty risky.

[bmjclark]

What about grapple instead of hamstring? Locks in place both the character who used it and the character on whom it was used, for ~20 seconds or until somebody dies. That way no-UA alts would promptly die if they're used to grapple. So it's not spammable, it should require (and consume) a full attack bar, a point or two of advantage or something.

still pretty much a death sentence in a 2v1, unless the 1 is way ahead of on UA

If you get caught you should probably die. You're still ignoring the fact that it's extremely easy to stay out of melee range. Also, the length of the slow from hamstring could scale with a stat vs the runners stat. At least if you get hit with hamstring you have the option to fight, more options then you were given last world if you got hit running away .

Also, if i read your idea right, having to break someones defense to slow them would solve nothing considering anyone who knows what they're doing while running won't have that happen.