Is anyone "not" using a bot?

[Lord_of_War]

So you are arguing that jorb tar does not care?

[naosnule]

So you are arguing that jorb tar does not care?

I am saying that just because other devs care, it doesn't mean that we should expect or demand jorbtar to care about how their game is played. However, they do care since they are against server crashes.

[Cranny]

I was having a discussion with a friend and it hit me why W7 is so littered with bots. W6 had alot of lag and it tended to result in a lot of manual tasks small or big to get scripted. It was quite literally impossible to play 10 min without having headaches about the lag. Clearly people used bots to navigate the lags. Now that the lag is gone all the remnants of those days with 100s of scripts from multiple botting clients are leftover for people to use. Somehow the people that are allergic to bots have taken extra notice to it and now more then ever cry out how much there game play is affected by these bots. Its more or less the aftermath of W6 that have resulted in botting being so commonplace in W7.

Lag had 2 very clear and diferenciated stages, the first one before the devian update, that was bad but tolerable. The second one after the devian update that took place in september 2012 thinking it might help with the lag, but just turned it horrible.

Union client was publicly released at russian forums on the first days of april 2013, and I think that by that time it had been used for more than a year by Axpeleog (another of the H&H programming geniuses) and hes friends, in this year its scripts where being worked up.
And if I recall correctly this was not the first botting client we saw, maybe some of the older players can help me with more data here.


So even I agree w6s lag did push up a lot the bot use, I think the reasons why bots spread so much are to be researched previous to the lag period and imho have to do with the high level of time consuming grinding needed to be "succesfull". (Ofc I do think that being "succesfull" has a different way for each one of us; but each one of this different ways needs resources to be acomplished).

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[Amanda44]

@ Tonky - thanks for the reply.

Ok, I do understand your reasoning a bit better now and I can see your point but I still think you are being overly unfair towards Emerald and putting your own emphasis and implications onto her original reply.

All she did was answer the original question from a personal standpoint, that she doesn't use a bot.
As soon as you addressed the issue of living with botters she has responded to everything you have said. She hasn't tried to hide anything and admits there are benefits and advantages, and yet you still keep going for her as if she is denying something, similar to chocolaterain, when she is being honest. What on earth are you wanting her to say?!

As for 'let them eat cake' - it's not quite the same thing, she does, and they do, actually share their success with the rest of the community, through trade, through testing (though I know you have a different view on that), via community projects and sharing resources, though the latest venture has yet to be made public.

Em is open, honest, kind, caring, and helpful and does not in any way put herself on a pedestal, although others might, lol, she really doesn't deserve all this just from saying she personally does not bot, regardless of living in a village that has botters, which she is not denying she benefits from.

Personally I don't see Em herself as particularly encouraging botters when she doesn't bot herself, all she is saying is the same as you and I - that she doesn't really care whether you bot or not.

Don't forget EC ran all last world without botters, Emerald knows how much work is needed when you play legit.

[Cranny]

xcom makes a point of reporting all exploits to jorb. normally theyre ignored. but at least he reports them. and he does normally dot hreads to share those little details etc.

This is true, and I am gratefull to XCom because I enjoy hes posts, I think there is no other way but hes sharing to get to know all this details that add interest to the every day game. And I also recognize him for reporting, I know not many of us are generous enough to report.

But I also think how Devs can feel when they are giving us the chance to play for free and their scripting mistakes are openly exposed.
They never hid that this is an alpha stage game and that many bugs and exploits can come up, they even have rewards for players that reach them with this data.

If it was me that get exposed this way, I would feel nude in front of a crowd and even maybe feel that XCom does it out of hes need of recognition from the community, because we all know anyone can find hes/her reward to playing in being recognized as a generous scripting genius (which I think XCom actually is) placing in second term the need of contributing to the good development of the game, so tbh idk if I would answer.

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[Cranny]

... I expect more civility of all of you. ... I fear that soon only bots will be playing the game and no people. It's already happening for cranny. ... It's not EC having an effect on the world as everyone is probably now bitting. I'll try to add more as I think of it.

First, I find some comments in this post that have been originally adressed to Tonky Insulting to her and to all women.

Second, the fact that I lived non pleasant experiences with bots in EC does not mean I fear bots will be playing the game.
I read XComs comments about getting humans out of the game as an irony, even he gets joy out of hes scripts working nicely he does need people to talk to (like we all do), needs tasks to be covered to design hes scripts (and who generates this tasks?: villagers do), and needs new projects to develop (developments are to be shared and commented to be enjoyed).
I believe we all will need some time and some elaborating to learn how to live with bots, I would find it stupid to deny the existence of technology that aliviates human work.

Third, EC has the same effect on the world than any other town the same size, not more, not less. What EC has in this particular moment are arguments against Em because of smthing I imagine has escalated in a long history that idk, and the scripter that happens to be making public hes work. So for this reasons it comes to notoriety, and not at all for being the town that is botting the most because botting in EC is the smallest part and even has generated arguments between botters and non botters living inside it.

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[Lord_of_War]

I'm not sure where you find fault. please elaborate. I'm here factually and abhor ad homenum. As for the socialization aspect the nature of the consuming tasks requires the division of labor. I'm not against bots and don't think that's what the discussion should be about. What needs to be addressed is game mechanics. I find no fault with botters.

[Eemerald]

please have a nice rest and reply back with a clear cool head.

reminds me of the days how koya and russian players used to claim they had reported many bugs and gotten ignored by devs.
i do get to talk to loftar quite often, often enough to bother him with time-wasting trash and tibdits and its not just myself alone but some others who join in the convo which is mostly done in public. if you think they are ignored, ever considered why? why do they have to choose when devs are most likely asleep/afk/too busy, or when we all know that they are super-busy with coming salem udpates. doesnt it ever hit you that maybe deciding "ignored" without considering timing is rather selfish? they are not your servants, they cant come right up at your requests, yet they just chose to go ahead with "the experiments" only at their convenience and complain "we get ingored"?

as for crashing the server, romovs explained a bit about his "taming" and it wasnt just a normal taming. his "speeding it up" process caused the server unstability and crashing obviously, and he and xcom had to tame new sheep over and over for this abuse project. and you should be well aware that many players have been taming sheep in ways that did not cause the server crash.
even though they were probably not trying to crash it on purpose, apparently they were abusing the taming mechanics. (loftar confirmed it was not solely by taming later in public.) oh, and you are definitely not in the place to decide what should cause the crash or what shouldnt.

Firstly I will respond how I want. I'm not really going to dedicate endless amounts of time to ensure my responses to you are an amazing piece of work. And you can believe what you want, those bugs were reported, and that crashing was reported and posted publicly in the forums, honestly stating what was happening. In previous world and with many other factions and players crashing of the server was purposely done to attack others or postpone attacks on themselves. Someone crashing the server by accident is hardly the same as someone trying to delay a ram outside their town by a few hours or during a big fight when they are losing. Your inability to see past that is slightly weird. but if u want to see things as either good or bad with no inbetween, go for it.

you felt like i attacked you many times? but ive attacked you for those two things only, which are basically one same attack against "we dont do this/that" crap when your friends do it for you that you approve of -that disgusts me more than the actual doers. i remember your noob days whining posts and i was actually impressed at your later work after you stopped whining and i even mentioned my respect to your "then-new" village when i was asked in #haven a few times. i previously only had respects to you before those comments of yours were uttered. that is why i chose to pm you for the further discussion, but it was like ... i was tryin to play a catch while you were playing a dodge and i gave up there.
if you want to take it personal, its your call and id enjoy your grudge. btw, i didnt start this one here, rather avoided at first, i just couldnt resist myself to reply back to that chocolate person mentioning him/her and you are in the same boat and you had to chime in to reboil it.

I take it personally when my town is bought up. I never used to really post on the forums, gaming was a new thing for me, not sure where I whined tbh, but I'm sure if I looked back on the posts early on I would be surprised by the content Regardless, I have always respected your opinion, but since last world, and that particular argument which you felt I dodged, because again, you cannot conceive the idea that players are people. they maybe peaceful, they may be raiders, they maybe complete asses ingame because of their gameplay, but in the end most converse on here, and on Skype, and friendships are built. I don't understand how that dodges anything, I don't recall ever stating that we aren't friends with raiders, or that we don't trade with raiders. you may not like it, but people join my town, because of the very things you seem to have issue with. and those connections have helped many people either to steer those people from attacking them or to offer them protection when they are under attack. Your issue is that by association, I must be a raider too or something because I was friends with many of Ainran during world 5. again entirely black and white perception of people and this game. which you are entitled to, and I am like others, entitled to ours and how we play. because we do actually play this game.

[Cranny]

I'm not sure where you find fault. please elaborate.

Oh God, my English can not suck more; Im actually agreeing with you, I elaborated why I did agree.

I'm here factually and abhor ad homenum.

What this means?.

[Eemerald]

... I expect more civility of all of you. ... I fear that soon only bots will be playing the game and no people. It's already happening for cranny. ... It's not EC having an effect on the world as everyone is probably now bitting. I'll try to add more as I think of it.

First, I find some comments in this post that have been originally adressed to Tonky Insulting to her and to all women.

Second, the fact that I lived non pleasant experiences with bots in EC does not mean I fear bots will be playing the game.
I read XComs comments about getting humans out of the game as an irony, even he gets joy out of hes scripts working nicely he does need people to talk to (like we all do), needs tasks to be covered to design hes scripts (and who generates this tasks?: villagers do), and needs new projects to develop (developments are to be shared and commented to be enjoyed).
I believe we all will need some time and some elaborating to learn how to live with bots, I would find it stupid to deny the existence of technology that aliviates human work.

Third, EC has the same effect on the world than any other town the same size, not more, not less. What EC has in this particular moment are arguments against Em because of smthing I imagine has escalated in a long history that idk, and the scripter that happens to be making public hes work. So for this reasons it comes to notoriety, and not at all for being the town that is botting the most because botting in EC is the smallest part and even has generated arguments between botters and non botters living inside it.

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This is very true, cranny and myself, LadyV and a few others dont' bot in EC out of choice. There have been many changes inside EC to section off botting because it requires a very specific setup which does ruin it for those of us who don't bot. and this has always been discussed, to the point where quite a bit of what is botted doesn't happen inside EC anymore so that it's not conflicting everyone's play style. it does benefit the town as a whole, but many of crannys own achievements and accomplishment were as a result of not botting. she has managed to get some of the highest crops in this game as well as silk, without the use of bots.