Jorbtar - THEIR ALIIIVVVEEE!!!!!

[Oddity]

I wonder when release will be.

[NaoWhut]

Seeing as they seem to be looking back on
Haven and Hearth? either they have extra
time now, they're almost 'done' with salem,
or they are gonna ditch that and come home.

They don't have to be whores here, we love
them for free <3

[Coriander]

Awesome news. It is time for me to scroll down and click on that donate button. Anyone care to join me?

Hey, I admit, it's a lowdown dirty rotten pavlovian trick. But I assuage my guilt knowing it works both ways. (That dog of his was a freaking genius)

[jordancoles]

(12:52:46 AM) loftar: But... how is that worse than using completely unpure lime, which was the only thing that existed until a couple of hours ago?
(12:53:38 AM) Colesie: Because if I have a 54% merc mine, and I'm looking for merc lime one node would have like 3 elements in it randomly
(12:53:52 AM) Colesie: Meaning I'd have to throw away 2/3s of the lime I dig up
(12:53:56 AM) Colesie: So as not to fuck the purity
(12:54:11 AM) Colesie: Meaning the job will take 10x's longer
(12:54:19 AM) Colesie: Not fun gameplay Loftar
(12:54:23 AM) Colesie: Not fun gameplay at all
(12:55:41 AM) loftar: I suspect you are vastly exaggerating the effect that lime will have.
(12:55:56 AM) Colesie: Could be
(12:56:04 AM) loftar: If it's so unpure so is to even fluctuate amongst its highest element, then it's not going to make a difference anyway.
(12:56:12 AM) Colesie: Same with water purity being random as hell
(12:56:26 AM) Colesie: We'll see how it plays out I suppose
(12:56:40 AM) loftar: What do you even mean when you say "0% sulphur 1.07"?
(12:56:43 AM) Colesie: I'm more concerned with this inbalance now
(12:57:08 AM) Colesie: With the 500 humoured people running around
(12:57:19 AM) Colesie: On all servers it looks like
(12:57:24 AM) Colesie: JT being a little lower
(12:58:13 AM) loftar: As long as there is change, there will be malinvestments.
(12:59:32 AM) loftar: If this were Haven, we would change things around a lot more.
(12:59:43 AM) Colesie: Oh lawd
(12:59:45 AM) Colesie: Lol
(12:59:51 AM) Colesie: Don't ruin haven for me pls
(12:59:55 AM) loftar: We're actually *trying* to stay somewhat conservative this time around.
(1:00:21 AM) loftar: I change implies ruin, then we'll certainly ruin it.
(1:00:30 AM) Colesie: Fix mineholes, statues, bearbashing and bugrams and never touch haven again and I'll be content
(1:00:33 AM) Colesie: Look at this crap viewtopic.php?f=29&t=30292#p390417
(1:00:43 AM) loftar: I think I can guarantee that for you.
(1:01:21 AM) Colesie: But really, we sort of need a wipe at this point lol or a humour cap
(1:01:22 AM) loftar: Haha, lol
(1:01:25 AM) Colesie: At least for the time being
(1:01:33 AM) loftar: You guys keep saying that, but do you actually believe it?
(1:01:36 AM) Colesie: Yes
(1:01:45 AM) Colesie: 200 humours is fairly unattainable atm
(1:01:55 AM) loftar: No, I meant about the list of fixes for Haven.
(1:02:00 AM) loftar: And that you'll be content if we just do that.
(1:02:04 AM) Colesie: Yes.
(1:02:32 AM) loftar: You actually believe that just won't give rise to another, different situation, it too being ripe with 'sploits and unbalances?
(1:02:52 AM) loftar: I can't even take that notion seriously.
(1:03:03 AM) Colesie: World 7, add spaces between mineholes/statues, remove bear bashing, summon bug, ram bug and I will go back to haven full-time lol
(1:03:11 AM) Colesie: There will obviously be new bugs
(1:03:15 AM) Colesie: I'm not saying that
(1:03:24 AM) Colesie: I'm saying idc about new content
(1:03:32 AM) Colesie: So long as the critical bugs are looked at
(1:04:09 AM) Colesie: Check this viewtopic.php?f=7&t=30260#p390069
(1:04:09 AM) loftar: You mean like the retardedness of alchemy in Salem? ¦]
(1:04:15 AM) Colesie: We'll give u 50 bux bro
(1:04:24 AM) loftar: Some bugs cannot just be patched with ever more bandaids, you know.
(1:04:30 AM) loftar: Sometimes you have to go back and redo.
(1:04:36 AM) Colesie: These ones can
(1:04:50 AM) Colesie: Bandaids all around!
(1:04:53 AM) loftar: Yes, but then the next ones will just be more layers of bandaids.
(1:05:50 AM) Colesie: Mineholes can't be built within 5 tiles of one another, same with statues, rams are only repairable once, bears can't bash auth objects with authority
(1:05:52 AM) Colesie: World 7
(1:05:54 AM) Colesie: Bam
(1:05:57 AM) Colesie: Game saved
(1:05:59 AM) Colesie: Ty Loftar
(1:06:13 AM) loftar: lel
(1:06:26 AM) Colesie:
(1:06:54 AM) loftar:
(1:07:14 AM) loftar: Well, FWIW, Jorb and I have been starting to discuss the future of Haven more actively amongst ourselves the last few weeks.
(1:07:32 AM) loftar: (Especially since Jorb started a new character following the lagfix.)
(1:07:34 AM) Colesie: Oh?
(1:07:51 AM) loftar: That doesn't mean anything practical yet, of course, though.
(1:07:58 AM) Colesie: Seriously though, critical bug fixes, new world
(1:08:03 AM) Colesie: You will be a hero
(1:08:09 AM) Colesie: I will send you roses in the mail
(1:08:15 AM) Colesie: And new plaid shirts
(1:08:28 AM) Colesie: Hundreds and hundreds of shirts
(1:08:34 AM) Colesie: Think of the shirts Loftar
(1:08:42 AM) loftar: Well, my main point regarding these "critical bug fixes" is that it's pointless if we can't be active enough to follow up on it.
(1:08:48 AM) loftar: The next state might even have even worse bugs.
(1:09:43 AM) Colesie: I can't really think of anything that it would cause, and we've had a year + to ponder it
(1:09:50 AM) Colesie: While you were away with salem lol
(1:10:00 AM) loftar: No, but that's usually how they are.
(1:10:14 AM) loftar: You don't see them until you have a chance to examine the new environment practically.
(1:10:25 AM) loftar: You think we created this state of affairs *knowing* these bugs?
(1:10:32 AM) Colesie: Yes!
(1:10:35 AM) Colesie: You bastards
(1:10:56 AM) Colesie: "And on the 6th world, let there be lag!"
(1:11:00 AM) Colesie: And it was so.
(1:11:33 AM) loftar: Well, sure, the lag was intended, of course.
(1:11:39 AM) Colesie: Knew it
(1:11:39 AM) loftar: But that's a completely different thing.
(1:12:27 AM) loftar: Oh well, I'mma sleep. I expect ten more pages of raeg when I wake up.
(1:12:33 AM) Colesie: Yes
(1:12:42 AM) Colesie: I will contribute at least 10, yes
(1:13:09 AM) Colesie: Lol night Loftar

[overtyped]

(12:52:46 AM) loftar: But... how is that worse than using completely unpure lime, which was the only thing that existed until a couple of hours ago?
(12:53:38 AM) Colesie: Because if I have a 54% merc mine, and I'm looking for merc lime one node would have like 3 elements in it randomly
(12:53:52 AM) Colesie: Meaning I'd have to throw away 2/3s of the lime I dig up
(12:53:56 AM) Colesie: So as not to fuck the purity
(12:54:11 AM) Colesie: Meaning the job will take 10x's longer
(12:54:19 AM) Colesie: Not fun gameplay Loftar
(12:54:23 AM) Colesie: Not fun gameplay at all
(12:55:41 AM) loftar: I suspect you are vastly exaggerating the effect that lime will have.
(12:55:56 AM) Colesie: Could be
(12:56:04 AM) loftar: If it's so unpure so is to even fluctuate amongst its highest element, then it's not going to make a difference anyway.
(12:56:12 AM) Colesie: Same with water purity being random as hell
(12:56:26 AM) Colesie: We'll see how it plays out I suppose
(12:56:40 AM) loftar: What do you even mean when you say "0% sulphur 1.07"?
(12:56:43 AM) Colesie: I'm more concerned with this inbalance now
(12:57:08 AM) Colesie: With the 500 humoured people running around
(12:57:19 AM) Colesie: On all servers it looks like
(12:57:24 AM) Colesie: JT being a little lower
(12:58:13 AM) loftar: As long as there is change, there will be malinvestments.
(12:59:32 AM) loftar: If this were Haven, we would change things around a lot more.
(12:59:43 AM) Colesie: Oh lawd
(12:59:45 AM) Colesie: Lol
(12:59:51 AM) Colesie: Don't ruin haven for me pls
(12:59:55 AM) loftar: We're actually *trying* to stay somewhat conservative this time around.
(1:00:21 AM) loftar: I change implies ruin, then we'll certainly ruin it.
(1:00:30 AM) Colesie: Fix mineholes, statues, bearbashing and bugrams and never touch haven again and I'll be content
(1:00:33 AM) Colesie: Look at this crap viewtopic.php?f=29&t=30292#p390417
(1:00:43 AM) loftar: I think I can guarantee that for you.
(1:01:21 AM) Colesie: But really, we sort of need a wipe at this point lol or a humour cap
(1:01:22 AM) loftar: Haha, lol
(1:01:25 AM) Colesie: At least for the time being
(1:01:33 AM) loftar: You guys keep saying that, but do you actually believe it?
(1:01:36 AM) Colesie: Yes
(1:01:45 AM) Colesie: 200 humours is fairly unattainable atm
(1:01:55 AM) loftar: No, I meant about the list of fixes for Haven.
(1:02:00 AM) loftar: And that you'll be content if we just do that.
(1:02:04 AM) Colesie: Yes.
(1:02:32 AM) loftar: You actually believe that just won't give rise to another, different situation, it too being ripe with 'sploits and unbalances?
(1:02:52 AM) loftar: I can't even take that notion seriously.
(1:03:03 AM) Colesie: World 7, add spaces between mineholes/statues, remove bear bashing, summon bug, ram bug and I will go back to haven full-time lol
(1:03:11 AM) Colesie: There will obviously be new bugs
(1:03:15 AM) Colesie: I'm not saying that
(1:03:24 AM) Colesie: I'm saying idc about new content
(1:03:32 AM) Colesie: So long as the critical bugs are looked at
(1:04:09 AM) Colesie: Check this viewtopic.php?f=7&t=30260#p390069
(1:04:09 AM) loftar: You mean like the retardedness of alchemy in Salem? ¦]
(1:04:15 AM) Colesie: We'll give u 50 bux bro
(1:04:24 AM) loftar: Some bugs cannot just be patched with ever more bandaids, you know.
(1:04:30 AM) loftar: Sometimes you have to go back and redo.
(1:04:36 AM) Colesie: These ones can
(1:04:50 AM) Colesie: Bandaids all around!
(1:04:53 AM) loftar: Yes, but then the next ones will just be more layers of bandaids.
(1:05:50 AM) Colesie: Mineholes can't be built within 5 tiles of one another, same with statues, rams are only repairable once, bears can't bash auth objects with authority
(1:05:52 AM) Colesie: World 7
(1:05:54 AM) Colesie: Bam
(1:05:57 AM) Colesie: Game saved
(1:05:59 AM) Colesie: Ty Loftar
(1:06:13 AM) loftar: lel
(1:06:26 AM) Colesie:
(1:06:54 AM) loftar:
(1:07:14 AM) loftar: Well, FWIW, Jorb and I have been starting to discuss the future of Haven more actively amongst ourselves the last few weeks.
(1:07:32 AM) loftar: (Especially since Jorb started a new character following the lagfix.)
(1:07:34 AM) Colesie: Oh?
(1:07:51 AM) loftar: That doesn't mean anything practical yet, of course, though.
(1:07:58 AM) Colesie: Seriously though, critical bug fixes, new world
(1:08:03 AM) Colesie: You will be a hero
(1:08:09 AM) Colesie: I will send you roses in the mail
(1:08:15 AM) Colesie: And new plaid shirts
(1:08:28 AM) Colesie: Hundreds and hundreds of shirts
(1:08:34 AM) Colesie: Think of the shirts Loftar
(1:08:42 AM) loftar: Well, my main point regarding these "critical bug fixes" is that it's pointless if we can't be active enough to follow up on it.
(1:08:48 AM) loftar: The next state might even have even worse bugs.
(1:09:43 AM) Colesie: I can't really think of anything that it would cause, and we've had a year + to ponder it
(1:09:50 AM) Colesie: While you were away with salem lol
(1:10:00 AM) loftar: No, but that's usually how they are.
(1:10:14 AM) loftar: You don't see them until you have a chance to examine the new environment practically.
(1:10:25 AM) loftar: You think we created this state of affairs *knowing* these bugs?
(1:10:32 AM) Colesie: Yes!
(1:10:35 AM) Colesie: You bastards
(1:10:56 AM) Colesie: "And on the 6th world, let there be lag!"
(1:11:00 AM) Colesie: And it was so.
(1:11:33 AM) loftar: Well, sure, the lag was intended, of course.
(1:11:39 AM) Colesie: Knew it
(1:11:39 AM) loftar: But that's a completely different thing.
(1:12:27 AM) loftar: Oh well, I'mma sleep. I expect ten more pages of raeg when I wake up.
(1:12:33 AM) Colesie: Yes
(1:12:42 AM) Colesie: I will contribute at least 10, yes
(1:13:09 AM) Colesie: Lol night Loftar

FINALLLLLYYYY FINALLLLLLYYYYY AN ACTUAL EXPLANATION FROM LOFTAR. If you told us from the start the implications of fixing current bugs, we would probably be more understanding. I think you in a way trolled people by not giving them this information loftar, also I have to agree with colesies idea of the way to fix the current issues. If these can be addressed, I think haven will be in a stable state.

If you solve these issues and introduce claim decay. and start a new world, I would think the game would reach 5000+ online consistently. I may just be blowing numbers out of my ass, but I really believe this.

[loftar]

If these can be addressed, I think haven will be in a stable state.

(1:02:32 AM) loftar: You actually believe that just won't give rise to another, different situation, it too being ripe with 'sploits and unbalances?
(1:02:52 AM) loftar: I can't even take that notion seriously.

[overtyped]

If these can be addressed, I think haven will be in a stable state.

(1:02:32 AM) loftar: You actually believe that just won't give rise to another, different situation, it too being ripe with 'sploits and unbalances?
(1:02:52 AM) loftar: I can't even take that notion seriously.

I am just stating that as a hypothetical situation where if you managed to solve the current issues without there being another gamebreaking one. This is just my wishful thinking, and i did say that I understand the implications of fixing the current problems, ie giving rise to new ones.

[WarpedWiseMan]

Vaults are probably only a very minor reason among a whole pile of reasons to not play HnH.

The most broken part of an outstanding game is the fuckers playing it. The biggest flaw in Haven & Hearth is that playing as a community of like minded neighborly folks (like a real clan and not a group of malfaisant malcontents who want to watch the world burn because they have tiny dicks and bad skin) requires about a million times more effort and general good luck than being a piece of shit.

Raiders and griefers are lazy. They don't need to do much to be successful whereas a thriving city or village must work together and be active, which lazy, dickless raider types make rather unenjoyable thus driving the useful members away because normal people with lives don't want to restart from scratch because of garbage mechanics with little to no accountability and almost zero chance at justice. If there are 500 people playing, there are 475 Jokers and maybe 3 Batmans. That doesn't work.

Until time sink and effort are equaled out so that play as an evil prick or a care bear farmer require the same dedication, this game won't be all that it can be. It will just be a place where you homos come to use bad grammar, misspell everything and build little fiefdoms of negligible meaning.

Oh and HEY BURG, how you been?

[overtyped]

Vaults are probably only a very minor reason among a whole pile of reasons to not play HnH.

The most broken part of an outstanding game is the fuckers playing it. The biggest flaw in Haven & Hearth is that playing as a community of like minded neighborly folks (like a real clan and not a group of malfaisant malcontents who want to watch the world burn because they have tiny dicks and bad skin) requires about a million times more effort and general good luck than being a piece of shit.

Raiders and griefers are lazy. They don't need to do much to be successful whereas a thriving city or village must work together and be active, which lazy, dickless raider types make rather unenjoyable thus driving the useful members away because normal people with lives don't want to restart from scratch because of garbage mechanics with little to no accountability and almost zero chance at justice. If there are 500 people playing, there are 475 Jokers and maybe 3 Batmans. That doesn't work.

Until time sink and effort are equaled out so that play as an evil prick or a care bear farmer require the same dedication, this game won't be all that it can be. It will just be a place where you homos come to use bad grammar, misspell everything and build little fiefdoms of negligible meaning.

Oh and HEY BURG, how you been?

Actually my dick is of a decent size, and I would say my skin and complexion is satisfactory indeed. C'mon Bats, get crazy. It's the only way to beat me

[Antioch]

If these can be addressed, I think haven will be in a stable state.

(1:02:32 AM) loftar: You actually believe that just won't give rise to another, different situation, it too being ripe with 'sploits and unbalances?
(1:02:52 AM) loftar: I can't even take that notion seriously.

While of course I don't say there are other issues, the ones stated DO probably have the largest negative impact on the game. This is especially the case compared to the fairly low amount of work needed to resolve these issues.