Custom client impact on haven

[Potjeh]

You make it sound pretty negative. Being aware of what my enemy did and might be able to do next can expand the difference between a good and a bad fighter by adding personal skill in a way so I don't think it is so bad to make players count. Maybe it is not necessary though.

It is bad. The whole point of computers is to automate the menial tasks, and counting definitely qualifies as such. If they really want to make personal skill more important they should nerf Punch some more, because punch spam is what makes some of the more exotic moves non-viable in majority of situations. IMO best would be increasing it's cooldown (2-3x current) or making it cost 1 IP. If those fancy moves were actually useful being aware of what your enemy is doing would be very important indeed.

If the lightmap is to be played with, game mechanics need to suggest that it is useful to do so and (obviously) optional. There should be a benefit for turning lightmap ON rather than for turning it off.

I think that presence or absence of light on client end should be totally irrelevant. Instead server-side lightmap should influence stuff like animal spawns, duration of tasks, effects of certain tasks (such as brewing potions) etc.

[burgingham]

Well, this is an entirely new issue we have here then. I can't say I have seen punch spam a lot recently though in any fight. Maybe someone who is mor einvolved with the combat metagame right now can comment on this.

stuff

Sometimes I wish I could play the game like this again. The first days in w1 were still the best. Not having a 50 people town with high end clients maximizing any possible gain they can find. It has its own percs and challenges, but in the end it burns you out. Well, at the same time it gave me a lot of things a casual player or hermit will never experience in this game...

[Chakravanti]

I think that presence or absence of light on client end should be totally irrelevant. Instead server-side lightmap should influence stuff like animal spawns, duration of tasks, effects of certain tasks (such as brewing potions) etc.

I agree. I believe we're saying the same thing. THe lightmap should be serverside and be a function that affects tasks. I think it should affect foraging and other perception type action. Crafting should definately affect it as well. Some chemicals decay as a result of exposure to light and thus midnight rituals should be necessary for crafting certain 'potions' indeed! You're always in here with the best ideas, potjeh. Indeed other processes might be hindered by the lack of light.

These things can make the day and night sliders relevant to productive characters.n Indeed this is a must-have for H&H progression and provides an open window to dozens of potentially complicating production factors and optimizations for individualization and personal development.

I think the lightmap should really affect some detection scheme of other players giving players who are hiding a stealth buff. I DO NOT think that this should be a solid now you see me now you don't nor its inverse. Rather detection should be a multitude of indicators that tip you off someone is mucking about that shouldn't be and options to respond (TRAPS!!).

[AnnaC]

My main grievance with the night and lighting system is that any light source objects are essentially worthless. Torches don't last very long and to make them is a relative pain to newbies (producing linen), and once you have linen production set up linen is needed for tons of other stuff that is usually more important than making torches, anyway. Candles are the same thing; especially now since hardened leather is needed more for large construction tasks. Another thing with candles, which I hated even back in world 3, was that you can't even use them until you get metal -- why isn't there a bone-based candlestick? Even an expensive one that requires specifically antlers and boar tusks or something? That would make candles more useful for agrarian settlements.

With regards to X-Ray and hiding objects, well that is something that is needed too since the camera is fixed and there are a lot of tall solid objects in game. Either set up a better highlighting system for interactive objects behind things -- best done through hearthling detection values -- or make solid objects less opaque and more transparent. With animals especially, since you can't even run behind fences now, the only defense new hearthlings have is avoidance. But in certain areas, decidious forests in particular, even with a vigilant player, it's likely you won't see a hostile beast with the default client until they aggro you.

I think a "discovery" system with beasts should occur as well, which makes them more visible to a hearthling that has encountered that type of creature before. Again this would be attached somewhat to hearthling detection values (per*exp or similar). Another thing with linking detection of objects to the heartlings themselves is that you can tie that in to the night and day cycle, and beliefs. So detection would drop sharply during the night, and maybe day/night beliefs can adapt that more (so say a full night belief character would have normal detection during nighttime or something).

In summary I think detection of objects, other hearthlings, and beasts, should be based around what your hearthling would detect, and less about the player UI. Just because you as a player can't see that bear standing a couple meters northwest of that apple tree, doesn't mean your hearthling wouldn't see it. Also if third party clients would have nightvision and stuff, what would it matter? The advantage of third party clients right now comes purely from the fact that it's UI aspects that add unneccesary difficulty to the game; move more detection to game factors and the advantage they provide wouldn't matter anymore.

[burgingham]

There is a wooden torchpost. Not that it makes things much better.

[Chakravanti]

Lamp posts that burn for at least a real time week from a supply of rendered fat, wax, or other light/fuel source. Mansions may have one by default.

A kind of campfire that's a slower burning lower/nil benefit version of a bonfire would be appropriate for less civilized asd developed environment.

Whatever is done shouldn't require a fuckton of upkeep to maintain in a civilized environment and should be reasonably manageable to sustain (1 or 2 days) and cost should be considered in trees/week.

[Potjeh]

How about lights that run on authority

[Chakravanti]

That bordering on NPC abstraction... I like it! (You know I hate NPC's)

[Jackard]

Lamp posts that burn for at least a real time week from a supply of rendered fat, wax, or other light/fuel source. Mansions may have one by default.

light decay sure is a fun mechanic oh woops no it isnt. how about developing a lighting system that actually offers interesting gameplay elements instead of causing eyestrain for players

like the one they have for salem. fight back the bestial darkness of the wilds with the light of reason

The problem with the default client is that it sucks beyond belief. Anyway, I believe that any game that has to use a badly designed interface to ramp up difficulty is a shitty game.

[Chakravanti]

Don't pretend like you actually read my posts or anything Jackard.