Is Haven Sustainable?

[Kaios]

It's a race, early game, we must hurry to build, to capture, we must hurry to rise before the others in the area do, or else we fail. It's exciting and fun and cool and full of mystery, we aren't infinitely strong, huge muscled men who beat down bears and swim lakes, no, we die to foxes and suck during those times and it's all good. We drink from Kuksas and die in swamps, and no one is the better.



RIght now, I can't even play it's so boring, there's nothing that I even do with any character, except raise meaningless numbers. For meaningless things. To raise more meaningless numbers.

Don't think I could have put it better than this. Your words have captured the essence of early game and why I enjoy it so much. Although Emerald and Grapefruit seem to understand this point of view, I don't really understand theirs.

I mean, don't get me wrong. I am all for a stable environment at some point especially sooner rather than later but are you really saying you ENJOY the pace of the game later on???!!!!! I understand how building your village/industry is important and can also be fun and/or relaxing but there really is a point you get to where you're just doing the same things over and over and over again all day every day. Maybe a few chance encounters with some (un)friendly players thrown in but otherwise...

[Eemerald]

I have same feelings about early world as Emerald. It is stressful and annoying, very nice and usually calm people around are fighting over nothing, every other hour without protected decent q resources makes you more worried, there is griefing all around, if someone from your enemies recognized you, you have to hurry up and finish your bw in 2 hours instead of two days, etc. I'm just not that type of player, I'm very calm and phlegmatic both irl and ingame, so I don't enjoy anything connected to rush and/or violence. Late world slow building is a lot more fun to me. And I know a lot people with same attitude. To be honest, I don't think I would be able to go more than a month in early world rythm. Though I understand people with opposite definition of fun and would be nice if game could keep them entertained aswell.

exactly. I prefer the calmness. I'm also not a huge grinder. I reach 200 on all stats and then eat from cupboards mostly. It is a bit of a grind with crops and things but even that I'm more chilled about this world. I like the stability and general safety, and as lawspeaker, I find early world draining as anything. everyone has an opinion, everyone wants things, lots of clashes, lots of issues, attack, instability, lack of resources, lack of space to call your own etc. it's a huge headache. I'm always grateful when everything that's required for safety is built and whats left is decoration, and tidying up areas, and supporting or starting projects etc.

In terms of what would be nice now, is more project based stuff as a whole community, nothing that has to be too grand as it's time consuming, but things which can be organised for towns and hermits to get involved in. community buildings, that kind of thing.

[Eemerald]

It's a race, early game, we must hurry to build, to capture, we must hurry to rise before the others in the area do, or else we fail. It's exciting and fun and cool and full of mystery, we aren't infinitely strong, huge muscled men who beat down bears and swim lakes, no, we die to foxes and suck during those times and it's all good. We drink from Kuksas and die in swamps, and no one is the better.



RIght now, I can't even play it's so boring, there's nothing that I even do with any character, except raise meaningless numbers. For meaningless things. To raise more meaningless numbers.

Don't think I could have put it better than this. Your words have captured the essence of early game and why I enjoy it so much. Although Emerald and Grapefruit seem to understand this point of view, I don't really understand theirs.

I mean, don't get me wrong. I am all for a stable environment at some point especially sooner rather than later but are you really saying you ENJOY the pace of the game later on???!!!!! I understand how building your village/industry is important and can also be fun and/or relaxing but there really is a point you get to where you're just doing the same things over and over and over again all day every day. Maybe a few chance encounters with some (un)friendly players thrown in but otherwise...

its not that I don't understand it, because I do. Previously in world 5 in a small town where I was not LS, it was kinda fun to be doing the early game thing. But I don't play this game for the same reasons some others do. So it's just a differing perspective.

I enjoy the build, I enjoy the running of a town, the planning and general execution, the dealing with other people, the addition of new members, the recruiting, the general issues related to the town. some people would probably hate that stuff. I know a lot of people who hate dealing with others in the game, who can't stand building things, who find no joy in farming or producing things. that's their game play and that's fine. but I guess me and grape just like it slower paced and safer!

[Jesus_Smith_Nandez]

If Haven was sustainable there wouldn't need to be world resets.

[TeckXKnight]

If Haven was sustainable there wouldn't need to be world resets.

World 1 was reset because of major game changes and, essentially, a compatibility break.
World 2 was reset because of massive bug exploitation
World 3 was reset because the servers melted and there was irreparable corruption in the world and the HDD the world was stored on
World 4 was reset because of updates and a compatibility break
World 5 was reset because of hardware malfunctions and more data corruption
World 6 was reset because data corruption

Resets have mostly happened because of outside factors or updates. By the devs plans, whenever Haven/Hafen is more complete it should never require a reset. =)

[Jesus_Smith_Nandez]

If Haven was sustainable there wouldn't need to be world resets.

World 1 was reset because of major game changes and, essentially, a compatibility break.
World 2 was reset because of massive bug exploitation
World 3 was reset because the servers melted and there was irreparable corruption in the world and the HDD the world was stored on
World 4 was reset because of updates and a compatibility break
World 5 was reset because of hardware malfunctions and more data corruption
World 6 was reset because data corruption

Resets have mostly happened because of outside factors or updates. By the devs plans, whenever Haven/Hafen is more complete it should never require a reset. =)

Without world resets, the game would be full of Titans with crazy UA running all over the place, and people who would be able to bash Bwalls with their fists and bargin-bin gold and other random unfathomable things.
Even though they were because of outside factors, the game would be broken if the world didn't reset.

I hope that Hafen will fix the issue though.
Let us pray...

[TeckXKnight]

By that logic you'd need to reset the game every few weeks. Any faction that wants to make a palibasher can do so in 2-3 weeks from scratch. Same for anyone who is looking to buff their combat skills up a reasonably high area of around 300-500 ua/mc. The fact of the matter is that these titans always exist and players who can and will kill you exist within a day or two of any world starting. You're never safe in Haven. Heck, even without being a titan you can seriously grief a faction. Pave their mountains, deforest their woods, and turn their grasslands into heath. Every player has the ability to do serious harm to everyone else in the world if they want to, whether it be in the form of resource destruction or character death.

It's also worth noting that you cannot break a b-wall without a ram even if you have the appropriate strength to do so. It's an artificial limitation that was put into the game in w4 I think? I remember there being b-wall bashers in w3. AD boasted about having one and Nople had at least one.

[Tonkyhonk]

It's an artificial limitation that was put into the game in w4 I think?

late in w3, i think.

[Potjeh]

It still makes the game unsustainable. Constant raising of the bar for PvP-readiness extends the game by forcing ever more repetitions of a finite amount of content, and anything becomes too tedious to play if you're forced to do it too many times.

[Patchouli_Knowledge]

Correct, it was world 3 a few times after the Battle of Black Helicopter Base. Both side were complaining that they cannot do anything to each other other than stare at each other behind brick walls.

On topic, if there is going to be some sort of end game, there need to be a dynamic element to the environment that will cause the players to change their daily routine, perform required projects, and adapt to advantageous or disadvantageous circumstances. For example, you can have a 1/300 chance of discovering a higher-than-normal new node that may not have been there before when prospecting, find a ruin that will grant some strong curiosities that are not found elsewhere, have an earthquake that severely weakens the integrity of structures within an area which will require repair or harvest crops early to prevent a blight that threatens to lower the quality by 10. Some of it will force the players to respond, while other will give large incentive because of the reward to effort ratio is very high. There may be some that will have the player choose how to respond to the event, should you do a mass culling of a cow explosive birthing growth or start a market for high quality cows?

(This is not assuming that the players themselves can create some dynamic situations as well which may require stepping outside of their daily routine. An example would be Dizzy shattering the trade route to Constantinople, a fracture in a major faction due to a schism in political idealogy, or someone turn-coating against their faction to the enemy in revenge because they took offense to one person's action.)