Botting Tutorials for Newbies DEBATE

[burgingham]

stuff

Bots are usually developed to a) exploit flawed game mechanics or b) to compensate for tedious game mechanics.

Your own ethics, wether you want to use them or not or wether you condemn those using them or not are really not that interesting. There is a lot of pros and cons on the topic of botting. There are for example people out there who enjoy the challenge of setting up automated courses of events and it is by no means trivial to invent a flawless system. Maybe even more demanding than playing the actual game.

What I mean to say is that you won't reach a consensus here. I myself always used bots that I considered should be in the UI/game mechanics anyway like the often mentioned example of selecting areas to harvest.

The only thing we can really all gather from the excessive use of bots is that there are parts of the game which need changing to make actually playing the game interesting again.

Jordan also has a point on the whole cheating thing, you cannot compare this to a test since here you have to know/learn the facts even more if you sucessfully want to employ a bot. So if I were to be particulalry nitpicky I could even argue that using a bot makes you learn more than playing the game without

[Kriegwolf]

What i can say, is:
Well, if botting should've been in the game, it would been implemented there. Then, we see it's not in the game. Though then we can say that other clients are cheating, too. And, well, nightvision is actually cheating (we now can spend the wax&torch time on something else).

~Forever yours, captain Obvious.

[Jester87]

stuff

Bots are usually developed to a) exploit flawed game mechanics or b) to compensate for tedious game mechanics.

Your own ethics, wether you want to use them or not or wether you condemn those using them or not are really not that interesting. There is a lot of pros and cons on the topic of botting. There are for example people out there who enjoy the challenge of setting up automated courses of events and it is by no means trivial to invent a flawless system. Maybe even more demanding than playing the actual game.

What I mean to say is that you won't reach a consensus here. I myself always used bots that I considered should be in the UI/game mechanics anyway like the often mentioned example of selecting areas to harvest.

The only thing we can really all gather from the excessive use of bots is that there are parts of the game which need changing to make actually playing the game interesting again.

Jordan also has a point on the whole cheating thing, you cannot compare this to a test since here you have to know/learn the facts even more if you sucessfully want to employ a bot. So if I were to be particulalry nitpicky I could even argue that using a bot makes you learn more than playing the game without

You make a valid point about learning how to bot - I've learned a ton writing my tutorial. However, part of the point of this thread is to address the issue of newbies not having to make the effort that I am making. If I provide easy access to bots, is it ultimately a bad thing?

[jordancoles]

What i can say, is:
Well, if botting should've been in the game, it would been implemented there. Then, we see it's not in the game. Though then we can say that other clients are cheating, too. And, well, nightvision is actually cheating (we now can spend the wax&torch time on something else).

~Forever yours, captain Obvious.

You speak like a Christian. "If God wanted us to fly he'd have given us wings", comes to mind.
Jorbtar are not know-all beings no matter how much Jorb claims he is one.

[Kriegwolf]

Thanks, i tried to sound like Christian. Actually, i find botting some kind of having no honor, but, still, i don't have anything against it. I just don't use it and try to play fair.

[Flame]

i agree of this topic only in 1 thing that was told:
there should be an easyer gameplay option (select an area to harvest, select multiple actions or aoutomate things that in other games are automatized).

Ok.

But i whould wish for a client that add this gameplay. I can't agree the "Then we make a bot".

Have a macro, if used to automatize things that need to be automatized to have a better game time, is a good thing and i'm not against it, but then why don't you simply create that macroes in an "Optimized game mechanism client by Xyz"?

I can't stand to see ghost pathrolling the world, i'm sorry.

[sabinati]

i don't think anyone is going to make a full on ai bot. all of the bots i've seen have been single-task. cut logs and bring to a place, farm an area, mine an s curve, etc

[Flame]

for what i know, but i donìt know so much, an ai switch between single tasks if the programmer want it. Surely the "adaption to the situation" need lot of work (imagine the ai of an enemy in a tactical game. need lot of work) but a basilar ai can be done not so hardly, also because this game is pretty simple.

[Jackard]

When i first saw this i basically said that the cancer has spread so far it's become incurable. but the fact of the matter is, the cancer had become incurable the moment that these things were allowed to exist(loom, wall-jump, macro/bot vault) from the Devs. I'm sorry J&L but since you knew about this stuff in the beginning. you allowed the cancer to spread. I know what you said back then"do you want us to be cheater police or develop new content?" well lets take a look at where we are now. Death is no longer a sting? The rise of the "Alt-Army"? is social/polotical involvment being a positive still happen? the thought of most if not all your client base "the game is broken/seriously flawed".

Their outlook has always been proactive - alter gameplay to discourage behaviors rather than reactive fruitless policing of the playerbase. Except when Jorb got drunk or something. So take that away, this decaying situation is a natural result of the development hiatus. Did you want them to shut down the server or what? What's the point in complaining about it? Just accept that this is how H&H will be until they return to it.

for what i know, but i donìt know so much, an ai switch between single tasks if the programmer want it. Surely the "adaption to the situation" need lot of work (imagine the ai of an enemy in a tactical game. need lot of work) but a basilar ai can be done not so hardly, also because this game is pretty simple.

Would anyone really trust a bot to determine the 'situation' of a permadeath character? I certainly wouldn't.

[Flame]

for what i think, a bot can't determinate nothing in all the situations if ther's not an human player behind it. Is the human that play the game and the human that feel the what's wrong in it.
If you create a good bot it can make everything, also pvp, but he'll never say a word if it is funny or not.