Topia Online -> Inspired by Haven & Hearth

[btaylor]

We will not have a cash shop, but a subscription is possible, though we will be hosting numerous 'completely free' sandbox instances.

So what would be the advantage of subscribing?

That way I see it, and from what he said

We will not have a cash shop, but a subscription is possible, though we will be hosting numerous 'completely free' sandbox instances.

It appears the game world won't be one giant massive map like it is with H&H but several instanced servers, and unless you subscribe you will probably be limited to the free ones that limit what you can do in them. Correct me if I'm wrong, this is purely speculation.

[Jackard]

We will not have a cash shop, but a subscription is possible, though we will be hosting numerous 'completely free' sandbox instances.

I doubt a subscription model would be feasible for an always-on pvp permadeath game.

[joshrmt]

btaylor:

The automation engine is in place to allow thriving societies and an interesting game world. Players can code their own shops, quests, spells, companions, towns, and workflows within the bounds of the game rules. Resource gathering in Topia Online is limited due to 'tiredness'. Therefore, chopping wood all night long will be impractical due to diminishing returns. The good thing is, we don't force players to have to manually chop wood all day, they could opt to do it overnight. That way, players can enjoy the game as they want.

Btaylor, I invite you to post on our forums with your concerns and 'what you disagree with'. I would like to see if I can adjust your expectations of the game.


As for subscriptions and the game world:

1. The game world is indeed one giant map. We will have private 'test' sandboxes for people that want to play around with the 'Topia Engine'.

2. You will likely need a subscription to play the game. You will not need a subscription to test many of the game features in a private sandbox.

3. We feel that a subscription is necessary to prevent a user from creating hundreds of accounts and flooding the game world with characters.

[Jackard]

3. We feel that a subscription is necessary to prevent a user from creating hundreds of accounts and flooding the game world with characters.

You could do the same with a one time purchase and limiting character slots per account..? You could even have people purchase extra character slots, they do this in MMOs like Guild Wars.

But subs in a pvp permadeath game? Pfhaaaaa. Good luck.

[jordancoles]

3. We feel that a subscription is necessary to prevent a user from creating hundreds of accounts and flooding the game world with characters.

You could do the same with a one time purchase and limiting character slots per account..? You could even have people purchase extra character slots, they do this in MMOs like Guild Wars.

But subs in a pvp permadeath game? Pfhaaaaa. Good luck.

This

[painhertz]

I've said hundreds of time I'd pay up to $14.99 a/month for haven with regular updates and everyone I've mentioned it to agreed......

[joshrmt]

I have to consider the costs of operating servers in an extremely dynamic game world. At the end of the day, I want to provide an amazing game at the lowest cost possible. Every creature in this game has its own 'virtual processor' on the game server, allowing it to execute it's own custom AI and routines. The entire game world is constantly generating and simulating content as players interact with it. This is not a standard MMO with a simple architecture. We are attempting things that have never been done before, and as a result, there are a huge amount of hardware considerations we have to make.

I would also like to ask why permadeath negatively impacts a subscription model. At the end of the day, my team is providing a 'live service' that consumes a lot of processing and bandwidth. Although your character may die, the world goes on. Everyone will die, but the joy will be in creating a new character and exploring new styles of gameplay.

[btaylor]

I have to consider the costs of operating servers in an extremely dynamic game world

Uh, what?

At the end of the day, I want to provide an amazing game at the lowest cost possible.

Why not free with the option to donate?

Every creature in this game has its own 'virtual processor' on the game server, allowing it to execute it's own custom AI and routines.

And that means what exactly? Bear A walks this way while Bear B is chasing after Player A a few feet away?

The entire game world is constantly generating and simulating content as players interact with it. This is not a standard MMO with a simple architecture. We are attempting things that have never been done before, and as a result, there are a huge amount of hardware considerations we have to make.

I haven't seen anything new that H&H hasn't already done except for cinematic combat which is pretty silly. Basically you don't have the hardware to run the game to start with so you're going straight to milking the players for whatever money you can get. Sounds like you're just looking to make a quick buck on the current popularity of sandbox MMOs.

I would also like to ask why permadeath negatively impacts a subscription model. At the end of the day, my team is providing a 'live service' that consumes a lot of processing and bandwidth. Although your character may die, the world goes on. Everyone will die, but the joy will be in creating a new character and exploring new styles of gameplay.

A subscription game is usually in place in an MMO where your time and effort is being saved as you go. You are paying to play the game to increase your gold, experience, levels, what-have-you. Even if you stop playing, it will be there, forever. Should you decide to come back you will be where you left off.

In your game your character isn't safe at all. Your time and effort is basically safe so long as you keep playing. The moment you stop playing, you are at risk of losing EVERYTHING you worked for. A subscription in this case means very little in the ways of saving your progress. You are basically charging people to create new characters and start over upon death, and nobody would do that.

[joshrmt]

Sorry btaylor, I may have worded some of my responses improperly.

What im saying is that players are free to create content in the game world that can be extremely taxing on the server. For example, imagine being able to create a wagon trade-route from one city to another city (covering hundreds of miles). One city may be in dire need of lumber, and perhaps nobody wants to manually carry shipments by hand all day. With the scripting system, players can easily create a route for a caravan. Additionally, the caravan can be escorted by guards.

The game server must execute complex pathfinding queries across hundreds of miles of terrain. Everything is simulated on virtual processors because each creature may have an agenda or objective. This allows players to create cities which have patrol routes for guards, shops that support bartering, land rentals, and anything else that the PLAYERS decide to create.

What im saying is that this sandbox is built by players. I am creating the core server architecture and client renderer, along with a toolset that the players can use to put these systems into action.

Although your character may die, you may have established processes that 'live on'. For example, your city may continue to thrive even if your character dies. I do not want players to get attached to their characters, I want players to get attached to the community and game world.

With a system like this, we may be unable to rely on donations to fund a solid game. I've already invested thousands of dollars and hours out of pocket to get this far. In my opinion, I would rather charge a subscription and be able to offer a superior service than offer a shoddy 'free' experience.

[DDDsDD999]

Meh, now that I read this thread it looks more like those games where you organize your resources, que up a bunch of tasks to be done while you're offline and repeat, just with players instead of cities.

Though I will most likely try it out.