Haven 2.0: "Hafen"

[Potjeh]

Yeah, if it's 3D the camera should be less Salem and more Starcraft 2.

[Xcom]

Graphics is like 1% of the problems that Hafen faces. I wouldn't worry about graphics at all, in fact if I was Loftar I would even try involve some of the programer community in making the client side client and worry more about making the server side stuff.

Worrying about 2D or 3D is like 5 steps down the line.

[sabinati]

As for me i prefer 3d, since it is easier to add new content/mechanics to 3d games (good height map like in salem actually). (for example to add horses to the hnh you should redraw many sprites, while in 3d you should just add new skeleton animation). Of course there's speedup solutions for 2d too, by anyway 3d seems to be better.
The only problem with 3d is performance, because you cannot prerender levels and everything should be calculated on update. But there's lot's of optimisations too.

you can build the actual stuff in 3d and export 2d sprites from all angles.

[Zeronine]

What I'm wondering is this: Is the Hafen 2.0 gonna be predominantly a rework of the code structure, or are you gonna grab the chance to really get in there in terms of design concepts as well?

I'm quite interested in game design, and Haven has employed some insanely interesting ones during it's course. Myself ,and other community members as well I'm sure, would love to hear a few of your ideas as they progress, also whether or not you guys are interested in your fanbase contributing with a few ideas in this thread, or keeping it seperate in Critique and ideas.

There's a lot of issues with haven 1.0 that I'm sure you guys are capable of solving as time goes on in 2.0, any info on the progress is very much welcome at the very least.

I'll end it with a design related question, both to the devs and to interested Community members, What do you guys think is the main advantages / drawbacks of the currently employed Permadeath method, as opposed to say an UO inspired Full loot system?

Hope I'm not derailing this thread entirely with my inquiries, and happy Christmas to all of you bastards!

edit: cannot into engrish

[Oddity]

Loftar speaketh more: http://pastebin.com/qesnehPT

Highlights:

(18:54:48) <loftar> http://jorb.seatribe.se/roligabilder/ridingman
(18:54:54) <loftar> It's funny you should say that.
(18:56:32) <Ratonces> Is it going to be implemented?
(18:56:45) <loftar> It's an ancient picture, from like 2009.
(18:57:12) <loftar> The, perhaps, main reason we never implemented it is because it would've required Jorb to redraw all the pants in the game for that leg pose.
-
(18:57:23) <Ratonces> Why there are no Horses. historically incorrect?
(18:57:46) <loftar> Same reason, and also that Jorb never got around to finish drawing the horse itself.
(18:58:04) <Frostycakes> Will he ever?
(18:58:19) <loftar> Well, not for the current version of Haven, for sure.
(18:58:32) <loftar> I'd be quite surprised if he never made one for the rewrite, however.
-
(18:59:25) <loftar> Farming is one of those things that's guaranteed not to work the same way post-rewrite as it does now anyway, however.
(18:59:28) <loftar> Since it sucks now.
-
(19:11:54) <loftar> Let me quote Jorb on the ambitions on the rewrite: "We wish to decrease the at times mechanistic feel of character development and progression, and attempt to introduce more meaningful differentiaton along qualitative rather than quantitative lines."
(19:11:58) <loftar> That would apply to the LP system.
-
(19:13:43) <loftar> It has always been our ambition, even from the start, to monetize Haven. We just haven't yet.

[overtyped]

Loftar speaketh more: http://pastebin.com/qesnehPT

Highlights:

(18:54:48) <loftar> http://jorb.seatribe.se/roligabilder/ridingman
(18:54:54) <loftar> It's funny you should say that.
(18:56:32) <Ratonces> Is it going to be implemented?
(18:56:45) <loftar> It's an ancient picture, from like 2009.
(18:57:12) <loftar> The, perhaps, main reason we never implemented it is because it would've required Jorb to redraw all the pants in the game for that leg pose.
-
(18:57:23) <Ratonces> Why there are no Horses. historically incorrect?
(18:57:46) <loftar> Same reason, and also that Jorb never got around to finish drawing the horse itself.
(18:58:04) <Frostycakes> Will he ever?
(18:58:19) <loftar> Well, not for the current version of Haven, for sure.
(18:58:32) <loftar> I'd be quite surprised if he never made one for the rewrite, however.
-
(18:59:25) <loftar> Farming is one of those things that's guaranteed not to work the same way post-rewrite as it does now anyway, however.
(18:59:28) <loftar> Since it sucks now.
-
(19:11:54) <loftar> Let me quote Jorb on the ambitions on the rewrite: "We wish to decrease the at times mechanistic feel of character development and progression, and attempt to introduce more meaningful differentiaton along qualitative rather than quantitative lines."
(19:11:58) <loftar> That would apply to the LP system.
-
(19:13:43) <loftar> It has always been our ambition, even from the start, to monetize Haven. We just haven't yet.

For godsake, please make dangerous as f*ck areas, like perhaps a dragon lair, similar to a cellar, that spawn randomly, make them stronger than trolls, and once you engage them, you can't get back out of the cave. The people want blood, and difficulty, I want to hunt for dangerous beasts, with some taking up to 2000 unarmed to battle with.

[Potjeh]

Subscription and one time purchase are the only two completely fair monetization options I've seen thus far in MMOs. Well, at least if they remove the need for so much multiclienting.

[Sarge]

I have seen cosmetics and vanity packages and add-ons work awesome too: http://www.pathofexile.com/

[Tyrant]

I love the idea of Hafen. I don't think a monthly subscription will work. A one time fee feels better in my opinion. The reason I don't play world of Warcraft is because the monthly subscription is Steep for me and on top of me getting a car soon 10,15 or 20 dollers won't always be in my pockets. Plus I feel as if it will drive people away from the game more then heaven already does. I'd be more then happy to donate every now and again after iv paid for the game.

Now that iv gotten that off my chest it's back to stalking the forums.

[painhertz]

I'd like to see a one time fee, maybe $15.00 ala/Starbound? BUT with only one character per account. That'll put a bit of the sting back into perma death and lead to more specialization.