Not what I was expecting

[loftar]

The nature of the playerbase is the direct result of the game systems, developer attitude towards development and metagame and of course the lack of development.

There is, of course, such an influence, but it is certainly not true that it is the sole determiner.

[davidson506]

~shugs~ say what you want i don't care. any way moving that aside this game is a lot more fun than it looks sure you'll die a few times and probily throw your computer raging but if you give it another chance it more fun than dr mario beleive me

[VDZ]

The nature of the playerbase is the direct result of the game systems, developer attitude towards development and metagame and of course the lack of development.

There is, of course, such an influence, but it is certainly not true that it is the sole determiner.

While I wouldn't go as far as Avu, I don't disagree that it's just the nature of the game. I'm usually a nice guy, but the game punishes being nice (except towards players with which you form a faction) (even in the best case situation, having completely friendly relations with a neighbor, you'll end up killed because the neighbor pissed off someone powerful - I've had that happen to me, being friendly towards anyone at all is a huge liability) while at the same time providing huge benefits for screwing over other players (why raise your exploration and go through the whole WWW drying process, then slowly raising the quality over many iterations, when you can just harvest someone else's crops instead and go from there?). In the absence of proper trade, stealing from others is often the only solution to some game problems (such as not being able to create mine supports until you've acquired metal somewhere, but being unable to get metal in a non-suicidal fashion until you can build mine supports).

I'd love to be nicer to other players, but not if it's going to cost me my life and/or require tons and tons of effort.

[Rhiannon]

I was expecting more mature crowd here

It should perhaps be noted that the attitude of the playerbase is not an intrinsic feature of the game, and that if you don't like it, you could even work to change it.

I call bullshit. The nature of the playerbase is the direct result of the game systems, developer attitude towards development and metagame and of course the lack of development. And don't make me laugh with the working to change it. It's been tried it can't work it just leads to bug exploitation or worse escalation.

Well they've tried a few little things which have improved it some (was that me defending the J&L beanos?..lol) I do agree though that it's mostly a bullshit call. Some dipwad mojanger...lol...made a billion dollars with some square pixels called minecraft while this game (My son calls it the "grown up minecraft") sits while it's devs keep trying to "make it different" to resounding failure called salem and beyond. Noticed a company in Steam has released a quasi-ripoff called "Project Explore" or something like that, getting rave reviews for building a cabin and cutting down some trees in an "early release" form. And again, this one sits because "It's not good enough" for it's own devs. But I digress, too late, H&H is the underappreciated bastard, raped by griefers of it's potential and yeah, pretty much a "Call bullshit" situation.

Tis okay though, some of us love this little bastard more than all the other minecraftanistos put together..lmao

AND I agree with VDZ above me here for the most part. I'd love to play with others but all they said was correct, it's not worth the risk, which is never a good aspect of any MMO that has that as it's main underlying theme.

[simimi]

Well, Mincraft is a solo/lan game, its quite different, and when you go play on multi servers, the problem of griefers is absolutly the same as in H&H.

[jtpitner]

LOL. Do not stop playing friend first time I died I quit for like 1-2 months then I came back it happens get over it after you figure out the game you will be all good. If you are looking for a nicer crowd look around you might find one..

[VDZ]

AND I agree with VDZ above me here for the most part. I'd love to play with others but all they said was correct, it's not worth the risk, which is never a good aspect of any MMO that has that as it's main underlying theme.

To be clear, I don't necessarily see this as a bad thing. It's a game with player interaction, and even if 99% of that interaction is hostile and/or screwing people over, it still greatly adds to the experience, and the current Haven is rather unique in the way player interaction works. (Side note: This is greatly helped by the decay mechanics. I love searching for old ruins and plundering them.) As hostile as player interaction is in Haven, the game just wouldn't work without other players.

[Amanda44]

The nature of the playerbase is the direct result of the game systems, developer attitude towards development and metagame and of course the lack of development.

There is, of course, such an influence, but it is certainly not true that it is the sole determiner.

Ok, I do have something to say on this as it is something I have thought about quite a lot since I have been here and it does cause me some concern.

I do think both the nature of the game and the 'freedom' of the forum does actually encourage 'bad behaviour' particularly in the younger members, I don't think either are a suitable environment for some of the younger players we get here who are at the stage in their life where influence plays a larger role, it worries me that time spent here is damaging to their development. I feel strongly enough about it to have considered leaving, in spite of loving the game, out of principle, more than once. What stops me, other than loving the game, is this;

It should perhaps be noted that the attitude of the playerbase is not an intrinsic feature of the game, and that if you don't like it, you could even work to change it.

By being here maybe myself and some of the other mature players, Em and Em city, Ven and MC, Kat and her merry band, Borka, LadyV, Tonky, Jen, etc (there are many) can also be an influence, even if in just some small way and counteract some of the negatives. Tbh, idk, it is an issue I wrestle with on and off.

In addition it should also be remembered that not all raiders/criminal types are bad people who get off on making others miserable, take Troll as a classic example, he plays an aggressive role here and can act like an idiot at times on the forum but how many times this world has he tracked and brought to justice perps for random newbs, groups, strangers (myself included) with absolutely no reward for himself.
That is another type of good influence and Troll was young himself when he arrived here.
And there are plenty more like Troll who do it behind the scenes, so I won't name them and embarrass them, but, if you just went by their forum persona's or the way they talk to each other you would be hard pressed to believe it.

As I said to the OP in the beginning it is not all bad and I do think we can all make a difference, after all, how people act towards you and others is often a reflection of how you and others act towards them.

[venatorvenator]

The nature of the playerbase is the direct result of the game systems, developer attitude towards development and metagame and of course the lack of development.

There is, of course, such an influence, but it is certainly not true that it is the sole determiner.

I have to agree with most points avu made. One could think that the game offers complete freedom and that anything that happens inside it is created and caused by the players, but that's not true as devs and to lesser extent mods steer players into this or that direction, by encouraging or ignoring certain behaviors. This isn't something players can change. It's not hard at all to find posts of players being complete assholes and using the excuse "Jorbtar want it this way". So even if devs don't actively want things to be this way, there's the perception they do.

Even if forum management wasn't the issue, the game is, and the fact that so much weight is put on combat instead of other things (like decoration, government tools, trade, religion, or construction) makes violence the most natural, fun, and complex thing to do. If there were content for things other than killing and griefing maybe people would not be so drawn to it. I never understood why there are more ways to punch a person than to make a statue, for example.

I agree with Amanda in how the community of supportive players, who help make the game better for others, is bigger than it appears at first, but that just shows how pointless all of that is since the game experience is still crappy: new players keep getting violently bashed on the forum for not knowing how to play, attempts do to anything that's not dick waving get trolled, people keep cheating and lying in and out of the game, accounts keep getting sold, and so on. Besides, the fact that some of the people she mentioned have to pretend they're not nice for not losing face demonstrates how fucked up the community is.

[ChildhoodObesity]

can act like an idiot at times on the forum .

um excuse me??!?