What did you hate in Salem you dont want in H&H ?

[painhertz]

Painhertz the Esport athlete

::Nods::

[LeonxnoeL]

First of all, i hope everything related to the Humor and Gluttony system of Salem STAY THE HECK AWAY FROM HAVEN! Seriously, what frustrated me the most in Salem, was the fact that all the cool stats and FEP system we had in H&H, got dumbed down into 4 stupid Humors that sounded like a desperate attempt to come up with something new and ending up with some over-complicated way of representing your character's health instead of the good ol' Hunger and Stamina WHICH ACTUALLY MAKES SENSE. I mean, yellow bile? Black Bile? WHAT KIND OF NAME IS PHLEGM BY THE WAY? And WHY THE HECK i must have 2 separates kinds of stamina, one for sprinting, working and one for fighting? WHAT, THE, HELL? Ok ok, after some research i found out its all based on Humorism ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humorism ), which even though its a cool Theory and it fits in the setting of Salem, its was VERY POORLY implemented as a gameplay mechanic compared to FEP and our traditional Hunger and Stamina system, which fits the survival genre better.

[shubla]

First of all, i hope everything related to the Humor and Gluttony system of Salem STAY THE HECK AWAY FROM HAVEN! Seriously, what frustrated me the most in Salem, was the fact that all the cool stats and FEP system we had in H&H, got dumbed down into 4 stupid Humors that sounded like a desperate attempt to come up with something new and ending up with some over-complicated way of representing your character's health instead of the good ol' Hunger and Stamina WHICH ACTUALLY MAKES SENSE. I mean, yellow bile? Black Bile? WHAT KIND OF NAME IS PHLEGM BY THE WAY? And WHY THE HECK i must have 2 separates kinds of stamina, one for sprinting, working and one for fighting? WHAT, THE, HELL? Ok ok, after some research i found out its all based on Humorism ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humorism ), which even though its a cool Theory and it fits in the setting of Salem, its was VERY POORLY implemented as a gameplay mechanic compared to FEP and our traditional Hunger and Stamina system, which fits the survival genre better.

Salem isnt meant to be haven and hearth. So theres no same system

[LeonxnoeL]

First of all, i hope everything related to the Humor and Gluttony system of Salem STAY THE HECK AWAY FROM HAVEN! Seriously, what frustrated me the most in Salem, was the fact that all the cool stats and FEP system we had in H&H, got dumbed down into 4 stupid Humors that sounded like a desperate attempt to come up with something new and ending up with some over-complicated way of representing your character's health instead of the good ol' Hunger and Stamina WHICH ACTUALLY MAKES SENSE. I mean, yellow bile? Black Bile? WHAT KIND OF NAME IS PHLEGM BY THE WAY? And WHY THE HECK i must have 2 separates kinds of stamina, one for sprinting, working and one for fighting? WHAT, THE, HELL? Ok ok, after some research i found out its all based on Humorism ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humorism ), which even though its a cool Theory and it fits in the setting of Salem, its was VERY POORLY implemented as a gameplay mechanic compared to FEP and our traditional Hunger and Stamina system, which fits the survival genre better.

Salem isnt meant to be haven and hearth. So theres no same system

So GOD I HOPE H&H 2.0 is not meant to be Salem, not even a percentage of it.

[RubyRed]

Salem had the issue I could not even light a fire, hell ruinscape had the issue. Haven and it looks like Hafen even wont be so complex you cant cook the fish you just caught. that is good in my eyes. If the game is not simple at the start and grows more and more complex (even if its quickly). It messes with game play, if I cant tell what way is north ince the game is to confusing even at the most basic level and after reading all the guides you can find. Somethings wrong.

[TeckXKnight]

Salem had the issue I could not even light a fire, hell ruinscape had the issue.

There are no tinderdrills. There are firebrands instead.

I agree with you entirely though. The game needs to be at least somewhat intuitive to begin with or else it rapidly overwhelms you.

[jordancoles]

Viewbotters like this guy!
http://www.twitch.tv/daopa

[Winnfield]

So this is my first post but I felt I would throw in my two cents for a game I'm very much looking forward to playing;

I'm likely gonna get a lot of backlash from this post given the fact I never played Haven and Hearth and I'm a newcomer and also the fact that I only really played Salem out of the games mentioned. My brother was a big time H&H player however, from what I've heard he was mostly the asshole type of player who would roam around with his high level account and ruin peoples day while he hoarded goods into his heavily fortified village. I was always interested in the game but in terms of gaming I had a lot on my plate around that time so I decided not to take a bash at H&H to see what it was all about. I did however try Salem for a short while and I will be honest, maybe it was just for the fact a lot of the design came from Haven and Hearth but I very much enjoyed the game, despite falling off from it to go play Archeage (Which ended up being a giant turd). Something about that game stuck with me I guess, maybe it was the fact I had a large group of guys joining me to play it and we worked together to build what we did but in the short time we played it we had a lot of interesting experiences in the world that kind of stuck with me. I remember the feeling of constructing our first house and filling it with chests. Hell I even remember the massive headache that was trying to find the right food combinations to maximize gluttony potential (I pretty much had the wiki open 24/7).

I agree the game had many flaws, the combat felt rather clunky, the graphics and avatars didn't really mesh well together, it was a little tedious constantly having to go out to find Indian feather to create charms for silver just so you could pay for experience potions and such but all in all I actually felt a sense of achievement for the majority of the things I accomplished in it. I will be honest too, while I'm not really versed in how the nutrition system worked in H&H I actually thought the gluttony in Salem was very well thought out and actually really made me brainstorm as to what I should incorporate into my next glutton. The only problem I had with it was that you really required several items from every food school to get the max potential of your glutton and the problem I had with that was, it was literally taking up like 70% of my time in Salem just preparing to get the food for my next glutton.

I guess I would say the whole point of this is that, yeah I'm very interested and looking forward to Haven and Hearth 2 when its released and will definitely be playing it, despite not having played the first one but having heard quite a bit about it. I know that there is a lot of hate towards Salem in these forums, most likely down to the fact that they took a game you all loved and molded it into something that is likely not what you particularly wanted and did feel a little 'unfinished', but even from a newcomers stand point, there is some things in that game that shouldn't necessarily be overlooked in terms of incorporating the ideas into whatever comes in August. Complex gameplay isn't necessarily always a bad thing, it tends to be what sets the veterans from the newcomers and I feel everyone needs something to aim for when they enter into a game. I have never really enjoyed games personally where someone new can come into it and pick it up straight away, even as a new player. I enjoy going into games and seeing the end product with my own eyes, perhaps an account that has been worked on and chiseled into being the best it can be and aspiring to become that. Things like this is usually what motivates me to carry on playing and even learn the complex aspects of the game and I know it does for many other players too.

I'm not sure what Haven and Hearths economy was like but I've always felt a more player driven one works best for most games I've played and while it incorporates more risk it also means people are smarter with their money and value it much more. I wasn't a huge fan of the NPC vendor in Salem. I felt like the need for a central trading hub wasn't exactly necessary, it could be the job of the players to provide large trading areas and perhaps even set up stalls with traders themselves to put their goods onto. I know allowing mass amounts of players into your village to trade and sell is always going to come with risk but I feel it also powers the role play aspects of the game too. Perhaps if one player steals from another and tries to get away but is stopped by a white knight. Maybe a group of bandits comes to the outskirts of the village to steal from merchants but is fended off by the villages players and defenses. Considering its a perma death game and that is universally known, I think the risk style of play is something many people playing a game like this admire so things like these are usually things that go down well with a community like this. Not only this but generally players with ambitions to construct their own trading hubs want their village to be found and so are likely to build paths and highways connecting the world to far places and other villages. I know having your village found and raided was a big problem in Haven but surely the biggest and strongest villages were rarely touched due to the fact that they were well known and raiders knew the immense risks of trying to attack towns as such as these. I think allowing villages like this to become safe trading places for newcomers and veterans would surely benefit both parties. There definitely felt like there was a lot of un-needed hostility towards new players in Salem most likely due to the fact that I'm sure a lot of those new players would grief and cause trouble in some way. The problem with that is hostility tends to create hostility I've found. Making sure the game is noob friendly has ALWAYS been the downfall of most of the indie games I've played in my time and I have played a lot over the years. The fact the game lives up to the true sandbox name is going to be a huge selling point in the games popularity but the biggest challenge not only for the developers but the community too is going to be keeping the new players long enough to really experience the game to see just how great it really is.

TL/DR; Salem, despite being clunky and a little tedious still had some interesting ideas so don't knock it out of the ball park just yet, and as for development on the new game, I would personally like to see it more player driven than Salem was, in terms of economy mostly. I also feel a lot of focus should be on making the game friendly and welcoming to new players, just from personal experiences from being part of quite a few indie game communities and noticing in every game that seems to be the one big thing they all end up falling off on and in general seems to be the downfall of each game I have played. Of course advertisement of the game comes into play but the most important thing of all is selling the game to those players who decide to click on the link and getting them to stay to experience what the game is really all about. Its all good having an amazing game but if they are bullied out before they get to experience it then its no good to the health of the game.

[overtyped]

So this is my first post but I felt I would throw in my two cents for a game I'm very much looking forward to playing;

I'm likely gonna get a lot of backlash from this post given the fact I never played Haven and Hearth and I'm a newcomer and also the fact that I only really played Salem out of the games mentioned. My brother was a big time H&H player however, from what I've heard he was mostly the asshole type of player who would roam around with his high level account and ruin peoples day while he hoarded goods into his heavily fortified village. I was always interested in the game but in terms of gaming I had a lot on my plate around that time so I decided not to take a bash at H&H to see what it was all about. I did however try Salem for a short while and I will be honest, maybe it was just for the fact a lot of the design came from Haven and Hearth but I very much enjoyed the game, despite falling off from it to go play Archeage (Which ended up being a giant turd). Something about that game stuck with me I guess, maybe it was the fact I had a large group of guys joining me to play it and we worked together to build what we did but in the short time we played it we had a lot of interesting experiences in the world that kind of stuck with me. I remember the feeling of constructing our first house and filling it with chests. Hell I even remember the massive headache that was trying to find the right food combinations to maximize gluttony potential (I pretty much had the wiki open 24/7).

I agree the game had many flaws, the combat felt rather clunky, the graphics and avatars didn't really mesh well together, it was a little tedious constantly having to go out to find Indian feather to create charms for silver just so you could pay for experience potions and such but all in all I actually felt a sense of achievement for the majority of the things I accomplished in it. I will be honest too, while I'm not really versed in how the nutrition system worked in H&H I actually thought the gluttony in Salem was very well thought out and actually really made me brainstorm as to what I should incorporate into my next glutton. The only problem I had with it was that you really required several items from every food school to get the max potential of your glutton and the problem I had with that was, it was literally taking up like 70% of my time in Salem just preparing to get the food for my next glutton.

I guess I would say the whole point of this is that, yeah I'm very interested and looking forward to Haven and Hearth 2 when its released and will definitely be playing it, despite not having played the first one but having heard quite a bit about it. I know that there is a lot of hate towards Salem in these forums, most likely down to the fact that they took a game you all loved and molded it into something that is likely not what you particularly wanted and did feel a little 'unfinished', but even from a newcomers stand point, there is some things in that game that shouldn't necessarily be overlooked in terms of incorporating the ideas into whatever comes in August. Complex gameplay isn't necessarily always a bad thing, it tends to be what sets the veterans from the newcomers and I feel everyone needs something to aim for when they enter into a game. I have never really enjoyed games personally where someone new can come into it and pick it up straight away, even as a new player. I enjoy going into games and seeing the end product with my own eyes, perhaps an account that has been worked on and chiseled into being the best it can be and aspiring to become that. Things like this is usually what motivates me to carry on playing and even learn the complex aspects of the game and I know it does for many other players too.

I'm not sure what Haven and Hearths economy was like but I've always felt a more player driven one works best for most games I've played and while it incorporates more risk it also means people are smarter with their money and value it much more. I wasn't a huge fan of the NPC vendor in Salem. I felt like the need for a central trading hub wasn't exactly necessary, it could be the job of the players to provide large trading areas and perhaps even set up stalls with traders themselves to put their goods onto. I know allowing mass amounts of players into your village to trade and sell is always going to come with risk but I feel it also powers the role play aspects of the game too. Perhaps if one player steals from another and tries to get away but is stopped by a white knight. Maybe a group of bandits comes to the outskirts of the village to steal from merchants but is fended off by the villages players and defenses. Considering its a perma death game and that is universally known, I think the risk style of play is something many people playing a game like this admire so things like these are usually things that go down well with a community like this. Not only this but generally players with ambitions to construct their own trading hubs want their village to be found and so are likely to build paths and highways connecting the world to far places and other villages. I know having your village found and raided was a big problem in Haven but surely the biggest and strongest villages were rarely touched due to the fact that they were well known and raiders knew the immense risks of trying to attack towns as such as these. I think allowing villages like this to become safe trading places for newcomers and veterans would surely benefit both parties. There definitely felt like there was a lot of un-needed hostility towards new players in Salem most likely due to the fact that I'm sure a lot of those new players would grief and cause trouble in some way. The problem with that is hostility tends to create hostility I've found. Making sure the game is noob friendly has ALWAYS been the downfall of most of the indie games I've played in my time and I have played a lot over the years. The fact the game lives up to the true sandbox name is going to be a huge selling point in the games popularity but the biggest challenge not only for the developers but the community too is going to be keeping the new players long enough to really experience the game to see just how great it really is.

TL/DR; Salem, despite being clunky and a little tedious still had some interesting ideas so don't knock it out of the ball park just yet, and as for development on the new game, I would personally like to see it more player driven than Salem was, in terms of economy mostly. I also feel a lot of focus should be on making the game friendly and welcoming to new players, just from personal experiences from being part of quite a few indie game communities and noticing in every game that seems to be the one big thing they all end up falling off on and in general seems to be the downfall of each game I have played. Of course advertisement of the game comes into play but the most important thing of all is selling the game to those players who decide to click on the link and getting them to stay to experience what the game is really all about. Its all good having an amazing game but if they are bullied out before they get to experience it then its no good to the health of the game.

We don't take kindly to walls of text around these parts.

[sapphire]

Devs, pls Don't make HnH2 same as Salem!