New SG's grid *Updated*

[Sever]

Problem with coordinates inside of supergrids is they're not "marked" for us. We know that no rivers pass super grids, so if we were given a map of the entire world we could quite plainly see the specific closed off river systems, and the lines of solid ground that are so neatly lined up between them in a grid pattern. However inside of each super grid there is no such distinction. River systems, ground, ground types, all pass between local maps and regions with ease. The only way coordinates would work in such a case would be if all the world is totally mapped, or at least all of the super grid, and thus you can find yourself in relation to the overall supergrid.

EDIT: I didn't tell it to quote. Quote removed.

Of course, you would need a complete map, which is why I said you'd never really be so specific. In addition, letting people know you precise location is a security issue if you're into that kind of gameplay. People probably use parties to navigate more often than not.

As for using standard (x,-y) coordinates, I say it's more convenient to immediately specify Northness or Southness of center rather positiveness or negativeness. After all, Loftar's grid coordinates are definitely not standard, so are we using standard or his computer-screen inspired type? I don't really see how it's handier, either. Care to elaborate?

[Shagrath]

*Updated OP*

Also, should this get a sticky?
I dunno, as I'm against the "more-stickies-than-actual-threads" disease, but I think it would be nice to have a commonly accepted coordinate system stickied, so people don't have to search... or worse, come up with new systems every 2 days.

[DatOneGuy]

Two things though.

1)Afaik and many people have gone over it in IRC, a minimap is exactly 100 tiles, not 125.

2)The NxEx system seems to work a lot easier, everyone knows their cardinal system (If they don't, they need to get back to school), and there's no "hurr durr flippan grizd" disease that would evolve.

The biggest problem with a new person coming to see the "A0" version was that some people would say it goes one way, others another, without anyone actually knowing. "A-F is vertical, wait! NO! HORIZONTAL!". I realized (much after the fact, thinking most people would understand a common grid you should see in middle/high school ALL the time), but then again you see the A0 system every time you open Excel or any other software of that sort, so if they can fuck up something they probably see more often, it's best to not give them room for failure.

[Sever]

Two things though.

1)Afaik and many people have gone over it in IRC, a minimap is exactly 100 tiles, not 125.

Wrong, and this is Jorb's fault. He explained that a local map was 4x4 minimaps, which is true. However, when you make a local map, you do 5x5 instead. Very confusing, until you realize that the segments/areas (100x100) you draw on a local map are actuallly smaller than the minimap (125x125). This has been the source of some confusion as it's not always clear if someone is talking about area/local/region/omnigrid/supergrid/overgrid/??? and all the synonyms you can think of.

2)The NxEx system seems to work a lot easier, everyone knows their cardinal system (If they don't, they need to get back to school), and there's no "hurr durr flippan grizd" disease that would evolve.

Exactly the reason it's like that. It's immediately understandable.

The biggest problem with a new person coming to see the "A0" version was that some people would say it goes one way, others another, without anyone actually knowing. "A-F is vertical, wait! NO! HORIZONTAL!". I realized (much after the fact, thinking most people would understand a common grid you should see in middle/high school ALL the time), but then again you see the A0 system every time you open Excel or any other software of that sort, so if they can fuck up something they probably see more often, it's best to not give them room for failure.

And the reason that a plain coordinate system is confusing. Yes, most people have had some math classes, but I could also argue that a fair number of people really suck at math. It's more likely that someone will at least know north/south is up/down and west/east is left/right, with only the possibility of someone telling them to use their other right.

New map coordinates system.

OPTION 1: (X,Y)(tx,ty)
(X,Y) mark the SGs (see initial OP)
(tx,ty) marks the tile inside that SG (tx/ty = 0 to 4999) starting topleft (0,0)
--> there are 5000x5000 tiles in 1 SG

Code: Select all

Example: (-1,2)(555,666)
= 1 SG West, 2 SG North of central SG
+= 556th tile on the X-axis and 667th tile on the Y-axis within that SG, starting top-left (0,0)

OPTION2: (X,Y)(mx,my)(tx,ty)
(X,Y) mark the SGs (again, see initial OP)
(mx,my) marks the minimap inside that SG (mx/my = 0 to 39) starting top-left (0,0)
--> there are 40x40 minimaps in 1 SG
(tx,ty) marks the tile inside that minimap (tx/ty = 0 to 124) starting top-left (0,0)
--> there are 125x125 tiles in 1 minimap

Code: Select all

Example: (-1,2)(5,6)(8,9)
= 1 SG West, 2 SG North of central SG
+= 6th minimap on X-axis and 7th minimap on Y-axis starting top-left inside the SG (0,0)
++= 9th tile on the X-axis and 10th tile on the Y-axis in minimap (mx,my) starting topleft inside the minimap (0,0)

That first option is better than the second. It's not bad but it doesn't give regard to cartography, which is excusable since nobody uses it anyway.

However, I'm not sure how you'd get those coordinates in the first place since there are no absolute coordinates anymore. They would probably be close, at best.

[DatOneGuy]

At last a full response to the 125 vs 100 grid deal. Man it is good to know.

As for the tile system, I don't see the point in marking tiles, marking the minimap is good enough usually, after that you can just say if you're center or right, or what have you.

[Shagrath]

That first option is better than the second. It's not bad but it doesn't give regard to cartography, which is excusable since nobody uses it anyway.

However, I'm not sure how you'd get those coordinates in the first place since there are no absolute coordinates anymore. They would probably be close, at best.

Well, my current idea is to go with option 2, because it actually includes all other.
Just by using the syntax you want, you state how it should be read.

See OP.

[DatOneGuy]

Seems to have gotten overly complicated.

Counting minimaps is a pain in the balls, and it would be easier to use localmaps or regions to identify, and then simply the tiles within it, yes there are more tiles but it's simply easier that way, localmaps are easy to spot due to the 'line' on the map where trees and things break, but minimaps are just a ballbuster, and from there counting tiles? That's gotta be a yoke!


Not to mention you're right back to the problem with people mixing up graphs, t'would be a lot simpler (simple being good) and harder to fuck up with the N/E/W/S system and specifying the localmaps inside, example:

N3E0 5,1

Would be North 3 from world center, East 0 from world center, in the 5th localmap (X-axis), 1stlocalmap (Y-Axis).

Anything past localmap is ridiculous because at that point it is very simple to juts say "I'm at the bottom right", or "Dead middle", if you want to go on and specify the minimap that would be strictly optional, and would still be perhaps the MAX you'd ever need to divulge as you can see prety much a whole minimap easily and it takes less than 2 minutes to search it for something.

[Slizyboy]

SG.X , SG.Y = any integer, with (0,0) being the center of X & Y axis.
X-axis increases from left to right (West to East), **Y-axis increases from bottom to top (South to North). Just like the pixels on your monitor.**

MM.X , MM.Y = Optional, any integer from 0 to 39, (0,0) being the top-left (North-West) minimap in the SG.
X-axis increases from left to right (West to East), **Y-axis increases from top to bottom (North to South). Just like the pixels on your monitor.**

T.X , T.Y = Optional, any integer from 0 to 124, (0,0) being the top-left (North-West) tile in the minimap.
X-axis increases from left to right (West to East), **Y-axis increases from top to bottom (North to South). (Again, just like the pixels on your monitor).**

Uhh, so which is it? Increasing N-S is like the monitor, or increasing S-N, cause I'm pretty sure it's usually increasing N to S ("Usually" because it depends on whatever relevant graphics library you're using).

[DatOneGuy]

On a monitor it increases from north to south (Top left is 0, goes down).

This has nothing to do with how a monitor works at all, not sure why he mentioned it.

[ReaperSWE]

Cordinates would be read as "Supergrid North 2, East 3, Localmap X 5, Y 8"

GPS-like system,
Easy to read and understand,
Can be expanded in any direction,
Greater precision is possible; (N2,3,7 E,3,5,2) Direction,Supergrid,Localmap,Minimap