Haven 2.0: "Hafen"

[wolf1000wolf]

Random hooker? Or someone popular on the internet - who knowz.

[_sarah_]

Right One;

Carolyn Porco, American planetary scientist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolyn_Porco

[Danno]

wait, what players are supposed to do in minecraft and how it is different to hnh (i.e. fun, not grindy)?

I'm sure you already know, but you're supposed to build, survive, and venture the depths of hell for loot.

1. You can build anything you can imagine, which makes building fun. H&H's villages are fairly boring because there's just a handful of buildings you can make.
2. In Minecraft, every block counts. If you have 30 blocks of dirt, you can build a fort with 30 blocks of dirt. In H&H, you can't build something unless you collect 100 boards of wood, 50 blocks of wood, and 50 boughs. In H&H, you also don't get to see it in progress or go inside when it's half done.
3. It doesn't even take one real life day to grow trees in Minecraft. In H&H, it takes a goddamn real life week! You always have to wait in H&H, like waiting 24 hours to make steel or whatever. In Minecraft, you don't wait - you just play.
4. If you have a diamond axe, it will take 1 second to cut down a tree. In H&H, you can prepare a meal irl in the time it takes your character to cut down a tree, cut all the logs, take the building materials back to your camp, and remove the stump.

Minecraft isn't perfect and its combat system is horrible. However, we can't deny that it's very popular. Numbers don't matter in Minecraft. You don't have to memorize math formulas, cooking times, or worry that much about what quality your gear is because it's gonna break eventually, anyway. I'm not saying H&H should be like Minecraft, but Minecraft is a good example of a game that's fun and popular with pretty much no grinding and no unnecessary waiting.

(on the other hand with about 500 active players 314 likes isn't that bad ) also you might be aware that there are even HnH players playing SS13

It wouldn't be bad if those 314 likes came from the currently active players, but this game has been around for years and it's seen thousands of players come and go. SS13 is the same in that regard, but the players stuck with it more and support it more.
I don't really care about Facebook either, and perhaps those numbers only really show that H&H's players are socially inept and paranoid, but we can see from those numbers that an anti-grind game like SS13 has a decent following.

One day, I hope to be able to praise H&H the same way I praise SS13. This game is good, I want it to be good, but the bad parts about it have made it so I can't recommend it to any of my friends. I got around 10 or 11 of my friends playing H&H in the past, but most of them would fade away after 2 or 3 weeks. I tried getting my friends to play again a few weeks ago. Only two were willing to give this game another try and they both only lasted 1 day before quitting. The grind-oriented game is seriously driving away all the players. Only the bots and the hardcore elite stick to the game with things like this, which is boring for everyone.

[Kaios]

You always have to wait in H&H, like waiting 24 hours to make steel or whatever. In Minecraft, you don't wait - you just play.

Yeah this is really something they need to consider making adjustments to with Haven 2.0. I understand the need for certain allowances regarding time, especially in a game where you can easily lose all your progress while not even being on-line, but the amount of time you spend waiting to do things in this game is certainly greater in comparison to the amount of time spent actually playing. I feel they had trouble with this in Salem as well.

[GrapefruitV]

I'm sure you already know, but...

Actually I don't. I don't play minecraft, because when I tried it I saw it as an analogue of real life sandbox with no gameplay. So I asked to make sure there is nothing more at higher levels. The only way to play minecraft is to play with your imagination, and I don't need to pay 20 euro for that, I have some sand in my yard.
I think HnH is much more fun in it's current state, than minecraft could ever be, including trees growing for 3 days and a house taking 600 straw to build, so this is probably a matter of taste. I don't mean to sound rude now and tell you which games to play, but maybe it's just not your game and it's better for you to choose something else, instead of asking for major changes in this one. You don't go to curling players to tell them how much more popular games with balls are and that they should switch to grass, do you?

[loftar]

I don't play minecraft, because when I tried it I saw it as an analogue of real life sandbox with no gameplay.

I agree with this statement. I've always seen Minecraft more as a kind of virtual Lego than as a game. That's not to discredit Lego for what it is or anything, but they are different things.

[McJager]

The issue with legos are they're only fun till you step on one, Minecraft is like a lego in that regard figuratively speaking. I spent a month building a giant tower that looked like a certain part of a male's anatomy just to kill the boredom. I'm new to HnH (Sort of) but I like what it is.

[banok]

I think its absolutely possible to make a game people would play for years that has no typical grind/progression. that doesn't mean I think its ever going to happen, its too hard for anyone to pull off. but yeah you can spend hours building bases in games like h&h/minecraft whatever, add in pvp that people want to do all day, combat thats actually fun, amazing economy people play trader in, tons of "gameception" like chess/poker inside the game. none of those things need experience points.

but I'm not saying i'm anti exp points, some character progression is nice. but too often there is too much grind. And that grind is just used a crutch to make a game with no content last longer, or convince idiotic saps to pay subscription fees or cash shop items.

[RubyRed]

Well being able to craft games in game and play them with people would be cool and a way to lets say, pass threw the night (when you can see much), in doors ect... even of we can just make some dice we can roll with people for fun lol.

But side games do help, minecraft is so simple I rather here about other people playing it then play it myself.

[Danno]

I don't play minecraft, because when I tried it I saw it as an analogue of real life sandbox with no gameplay. So I asked to make sure there is nothing more at higher levels. The only way to play minecraft is to play with your imagination, and I don't need to pay 20 euro for that, I have some sand in my yard.

True, you do kinda have to make the gameplay on your own in that game, which is a turn off for some. There's no real goal in the game. H&H is obviously different in many ways, but it's also an aimless game where you have to use your imagination. I mean, there are no dungeons, no quests, no bosses, etc. You're just thrown into the wilderness and the gameplay is what you make it out to be.
Haven has you rely on your imagination much less, so it's certainly more playable for the uncreative crowd (while allowing small amounts of creativity for those interested). What is Haven's gameplay, though? You criticize Minecraft's lack of gameplay, but Haven doesn't really have gameplay either. All you do is build a house, build a wall, cheaply kill animals without putting yourself in any danger, and farm/grind quality, hoarding your valuables in your fortress. In Minecraft, you also build a house, build a wall, experience lame combat, farm your crops, and hoard your valuables in your home.

Of course, Haven has an interesting melee combat system, but nobody ever gets to use it. How many times have you fought someone in this game - excluding one-sided battles where an experienced player slays a newb and excluding offline combat (killing criminals)?


Haven has so much potential to be an amazingly fun, interesting, and engaging game, it hurts to see it reduced to this state of isolation and uninspired grinding.