Scripts abusing in w7

[Kaios]

Exactly. People play the game how they want to, it's not affecting you and your spruce cap (except for some forraging bots maybe) so what's the problem?

[Brás]

"How could this be?!" you ask. Well, I'll tell you how... It's because people enjoyed the game for what it is. The custom clients certainly weren't what they are now but it also wasn't filled with a bunch of fucking negative nancies spouting out garbage like "BOTS FOREVER" or "MY FAVOURITE ASPECT OF THIS GAME IS THE SCRIPTING!!!" Was the world unbalanced? Perhaps. This was mostly due to a few bugs however that simply had not been dealt with until the end of the world. Botting was a non-issue. It's the players who want the bots, not the game forcing you to use them.

I haven't played W3, so... How many people bot then? Wasn't it that way because there were way less botters/total than today?

Exactly. People play the game how they want to, it's not affecting you and your spruce cap (except for some forraging bots maybe) so what's the problem?

It affects other players the moment they decide to settle or go nearby the botter's lair. It doesn't matter how many villagers you have, there's just no competition with someone who has alts foraging/mining/whatever 24/7. If the botter is on the other side of the map the effect is much smaller - it becomes an issue when there are botters all around the map. It also affects the economy of the game, of course.

Notice I'm not talking about having a farming bot to do the repetitive task of farming for you, but abusing botting as I've been mentioning. I do see a difference between just having one bot and having dozens of bots such as DuMarsch and others shamelessly admit. Even if you do manage to make botting just as effective as playing normally, if you have dozens of bots you'll be as effective as dozens of players playing normally. It'll always be an advantage. That's why I see a problem with multi-client.

[GrapefruitV]

I believe w3 was better only because the whole community was more naive and younger. Bots or no bots, we won't see that ever again, unless all the old players will quit game, forum will be cleaned from the old threads, wiki deleted and a huge wave of noobs will join. W3 was friendly, fun and relatively peaceful only because for 80-90% of players it was about fresh game discovery. They(we) had no time to think about bots, nightvision and wars, we hardly had enemies back then. And who was the first people botting shit, bug abusing and participating global wars? Right, mostly the ones who been here since w1-w2. There is another tendency: the sooner you come to forum and wiki, the sooner you grow to big-factions-playstyle, gane some hatered and enemies. You can't repeat your childhood without wiping your memories.

[Tonkyhonk]

in w3, calling someone a botter was an insult. i remember some big groups swearing at each other back and forth saying "you, botter!" "no, you!" instead of "bagouser!" in w4-6.
also, w3 had some decent updates at the first half of the world while i remember every other vet crying how it died down at the last half. at the end, many players complained about the cold wars, map being too huge and everything looked stagnant (to those vets, at least) and so on, which encouraged devs to keep the size as small as the first 5x5 (and many complained about the world size forgetting who convinced devs in the first place to keep the basic 5x5). besides, iirc, most of the fixes players whine are all suggested from players side one way or another, but they all call the fixes "bandaids" or something only to make them another source of complaints and to discourage devs.

it has always been players who start all the issues one after another that let devs believe "we cant have nice things".

[Kaios]

I haven't played W3, so... How many people bot then?

Grapefruit said it already. The people who had been playing since W1-W2 were the likely botters, but even so I don't think you could call it botting in comparison to now. It really wasn't much of an issue, back then the focus was on alleviating the pain of some of the more annoying tasks rather than creating something like a forage bot.

Wasn't it that way because there were way less botters/total than today?

Well, yes. Obviously. Once again, Grapefruit mentioned the naivety of players at the time being a factor and I believe there is some truth to that, although I'm not sure when the full realization of what could be implemented in to the client happened. That's kind of my point though, there were WAY less botters and the game was more fun because of it. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar or just wasn't around to enjoy it. World 3 was my first world and it was also the last good world I played.

unless all the old players will quit game

I disagree with this though. Sure, it was the old players who began it all and a select few who actually did the coding for these clients but I feel like a good portion of these veteran players don't even voice their opinions any more. I believe were many of them to come around again and see the current state of the game they would just find it depressing (In fact I'm sure some of them have come and gone). It is the 2011/2012 players now who are pushing this botting agenda without any clue as to what it was like before all of it.

in w3, calling someone a botter was an insult. i remember some big groups swearing at each other back and forth saying "you, botter!" "no, you!" instead of "bagouser!" in w4-6.
also, w3 had some decent updates at the first half of the world while i remember every other vet crying how it died down at the last half. at the end, many players complained about the cold wars, map being too huge and everything looked stagnant (to those vets, at least) and so on, which encouraged devs to keep the size as small as the first 5x5 (and many complained about the world size forgetting who convinced devs in the first place to keep the basic 5x5). besides, iirc, most of the fixes players whine are all suggested from players side one way or another, but they all call the fixes "bandaids" or something only to make them another source of complaints and to discourage devs.

it has always been players who start all the issues one after another that let devs believe "we cant have nice things".

I'm glad you said this because I felt a little crazy with some of the responses I've been getting. The lack of responses are worse, however. Especially when I catch Jorb or Loftar reading but then they just disappear and it's like ok fuck you too.

[Bampfylde]

Kaios, don't worry, there are plenty of quieter players who agree with you. Some people make loud noises whenever they feel the need to defend themselves.

[Dust]

No one in this thread complaining about bots have a clue what power gaming is even about. You think bots are wrecking this game and increasing the bar for regular John Do? I just visited a friends old camp where he had village members doing cheese by hand, not bot but actually by hand. Even as a power botter my jaw dropped. It was the biggest cheese factory I have ever seen run solo by one single guy alone. I can honestly say that even with my bots I wouldn't be able to match that setup. Reality is that your most likely a softy who got left way way behind in the arms race and now feel like your just a nobody.

Havens engine is server side and limits the exploits anyone can preform making botting very limited. The only people who can complain about bots are the actual botters that knows what can be exploited. Funny enough they have all admittedly been open about the key exploitative aspects of this game and told you about it. Bots like pearl collecting scripts and hunger grinding scripts which can both be fixed with a simple tweak in the code are ignored because why? BECAUSE THEY ARE WORKING ON HAVEN 2. Do you want to get rid of these game breaking bots? Then go bug the devs to spend time away from haven 2 to accommodate for your personal needs.

Leave the game and come back after haven 2. You clearly cant handle being ganked by someone that plays 30h+ more then you per week. Playtime and effort directly go hand in hand, noone here complaining about the bots really have any legitimate complaint to bring. Your just begging for attention to tell people about how hardcore gamers are taking up so much space in your favorite single shard MMO. I bet people that complain about bots would have had a different mindset to botting if they even had done some moderate scripting in haven and seen how limited you are. Even if bots would be removed your ass would have been handed to you by elitists and you would be back in these forums complaining about something new.

If your just complaining that botting in on its own just destroys your gameplay experience then your in the wrong place. Sadly that train left in W1-2 when the game was fresh and new and noone cared for bots. The only way to get that back is to find a new and exciting game, you wont ever get that back in haven 1.0 again, EVER.

[Kaios]

No one in this thread complaining about bots have a clue what power gaming is even about. You think bots are wrecking this game and increasing the bar for regular John Do? I just visited a friends old camp where he had village members doing cheese by hand, not bot but actually by hand. Even as a power botter my jaw dropped. It was the biggest cheese factory I have ever seen run solo by one single guy alone. I can honestly say that even with my bots I wouldn't be able to match that setup. Reality is that your most likely a softy who got left way way behind in the arms race and now feel like your just a nobody.

Havens engine is server side and limits the exploits anyone can preform making botting very limited. The only people who can complain about bots are the actual botters that knows what can be exploited. Funny enough they have all admittedly been open about the key exploitative aspects of this game and told you about it. Bots like pearl collecting scripts and hunger grinding scripts which can both be fixed with a simple tweak in the code are ignored because why? BECAUSE THEY ARE WORKING ON HAVEN 2. Do you want to get rid of these game breaking bots? Then go bug the devs to spend time away from haven 2 to accommodate for your personal needs.

Leave the game and come back after haven 2. You clearly cant handle being ganked by someone that plays 30h+ more then you per week. Playtime and effort directly go hand in hand, noone here complaining about the bots really have any legitimate complaint to bring. Your just begging for attention to tell people about how hardcore gamers are taking up so much space in your favorite single shard MMO. I bet people that complain about bots would have had a different mindset to botting if they even had done some moderate scripting in haven and seen how limited you are. Even if bots would be removed your ass would have been handed to you by elitists and you would be back in these forums complaining about something new.

If your just complaining that botting in on its own just destroys your gameplay experience then your in the wrong place. Sadly that train left in W1-2 when the game was fresh and new and noone cared for bots. The only way to get that back is to find a new and exciting game, you wont ever get that back in haven 1.0 again, EVER.

Annnnnd this is why I laugh at people who claim to "win" at this game or play it crazy hours to keep ahead of the curve.

The people who win at Haven & Hearth are the ones who make a new friend or run a fairly successful community driven town. The Russian fucktards and Nao and Odditown and painhertz types who play this game like it is the pinnacle of PvP aspired combat simulations because of the permadeath feature are such fucking jokes.

I do appreciate the response though.

[windmaker]

@arcanust join to me and we can make a new bot engine for hafen, we can make mad to a lot of people here, because the present bots dont work in hafen

What makes you think the present bots won't work for hafen?
Maybe we will need to change the bot engine to deal with the protocals for hafen, but I think we don't need to make a whole new engine.

my developer instinct.

[Kaios]

By the way Dust, Jorb & Loftar started work on Salem in 2011 and have been pretty occupied with it up until recently. The work on Hafen is relatively recent. On June 29, 2013, this conversation happened in this thread:

It's not as if we haven't been aware that foraging is relatively non-intensive in terms of meaningful decisions to be made during the process.

We don't blame you. You can't do much about it tbh :/

Heh. I wouldn't be too sure about that.

It's quite clear to me they've been contemplating these issues for some time and with the work on Hafen moving along (it would seem) where is the harm in bringing these concerns to light once again? The fact that you assume the purpose of any argument I've made or anyone else is for immediate changes is wrong. Do you have a problem with discussion? I only want a game that is enjoyable for the majority to play and not just a small portion.