Scripts abusing in w7

[Jojjkano]

Why not make curios only possible to study on the char that collected them, it would result in lots more random player interactions.

[thechop96]

Why not make curios only possible to study on the char that collected them, it would result in lots more random player interactions.

wouldn't that defeat the purpose of crafting alts? Plus that would impact trade extensively.

[Jojjkano]

Or just remove foraged curios completely.
Trading could still be done and i think the botting of foraged curios is a bigger problem than the impact of trading without foraged curios.

[Kaios]

Well let's start with this:

Of course I have worked on a personal client. But does it give pvp advantages? No, as they are also in the lite version including a few other pvp specialized features that people requested. But on the other hand it does give non-pvp advantages like eased building, farming and few other areas.In a game like haven the only area that advantage matters is in combat. If your a builder that likes to make large structures then ya your definitely in a major disadvantage to me as that's what I have specialized in.

Uh, everything is interconnected though. Node quality effects your industry, your industry effects what you produce, what you produce effects your characters and your characters effect the world. Saying your advantage in one area doesn't have any effect on another doesn't make any sense. Even if you tried your hardest not to take advantage of the things you've created in a way that is unfair, I doubt it would be very easy let alone possible.

Then the whole nature of this game is the struggle to gain advantage. Your basically arguing against the nature of the game saying that you want all advantages leveled out so you have a chance to compete to what I build. Have you ever felt the need to build something large and went, o fuck that guy with bots does it so much bigger. Then ya you have been affected by me. If not then you haven't been affected by someone like me at all or many other scripters. The only scripters you have been affected by are the pearl botters, hunger grinders and troll miners. Take into consideration that the last one in that list was plugged at the start of this world. Sadly the other two wasn't taken into account and now are being exploited.

Ok, let's say it is true that your contributions have had ZERO effect on anyone else playing the game at this time. It doesn't change the fact that these issues are still prevalent due to many others and something needs to be done about it. I'm sorry if any changes in this regard would ruin the game for you but the game was not intended to be a programmer's Haven in the first place and it was fun before scripting/botting became such a necessity for some so I don't see how it can't still be fun without it. The simple creation of these clients alone has had effects over time I'm sure you or I have not even considered.

Its very childish to think that everyone likes the same play stile that you have in mind.

I will address this last point only. It's very childish to think programming/coding is even a play style. You can do those things without the use of Haven & Hearth, I on the other hand can't play Haven & Hearth without playing Haven & Hearth. You could create your own game if you really wanted to. You're being hypocritical, telling me that even though I feel my gameplay experience is being ruined, it's ok because you're still enjoying it how you want to. I'll be honest if your programming is simply limited to Haven & Hearth alone and without it you will literally DIE, you truly lack the creativity I thought you had when observing the structures you've created in the past.

[Dust]

You're being hypocritical, telling me that even though I feel my gameplay experience is being ruined, it's ok because you're still enjoying it how you want to.

This is the problem of it all. Your game experience in on its own wasn't being affected until you were told bots existed. Your game experience would have gone on unaffected for years to come if you had never visited these forums and were told about these bots. Except for the listed bots explained above. Those bots do affect your game play and everyone including myself agree they need to be addressed. But you cant complain about game experience is ruined when this guy half way across the map you never met in game have this one bot that can build faster then you. Your exaggerating the problem to a point where your making a hen out of a feather and turn every bot into your perfect ideal game exploit that stinks up the whole community and game experience.

I highly doubt your game experience have been ruined by anything bot related. More or less your board and just want to vent your opinions here on the forums. If you on the other hand really feal like bots are taking up all the space in the game then your prity much in the wrong game. As I stated before there have been individuals that have taken advantage of the same exploits not using bots and now have created monster characters to wreck your day, those exploits that the same botters have brought to light.

Best cheese setups have been by non-botters, best curio stockpiles by best traders, best pvpers by non-botters and best politicians by non-botters. Bots have less of an impact then you let on. People just rage when there is an easy and tangible escape goat in front of them. I highly doubt people in W3 were raging about bots as much as now. Just about everyone have an opinion to bring and the sad story is that no one have even bothered to think for 10 seconds what exactly it is bots ruin in there everyday gameplay. Can you please just tell us what exactly is these bots ruin in your everyday gameplay?

[Kaios]

Being unaware and being unaffected are two different things...

Can you please just tell us what exactly is these bots ruin in your everyday gameplay?

wow

I was under the impression that everything I've talked about so far and all the points I have made were an attempt to explain exactly that but ok... I've thought about it and I'm not going to continue this with you if your argument is going to remain the same regardless of all of the points that I've rebutted. All I can say is it's not I who overestimates the botting issue but you who underestimates the cause and effect.

Everything I said so far is severely relevant if Hafen is open source and the following remains true:

And for the sakes of arguement, the snip of hafen code release shows its similiar code with a lot of salem additions, so yes it will be bottable.

I'll just end off by including some quotes that I found funny and some I thought were rather contradictory:

I just visited a friends old camp where he had village members doing cheese by hand, not bot but actually by hand. Even as a power botter my jaw dropped. It was the biggest cheese factory I have ever seen run solo by one single guy alone. I can honestly say that even with my bots I wouldn't be able to match that setup.

Leave the game and come back after haven 2. You clearly cant handle being ganked by someone that plays 30h+ more then you per week.

Playtime and effort directly go hand in hand, noone here complaining about the bots really have any legitimate complaint to bring.

We have no clue whats in store when haven 2 comes out but I'm sure they will address the points made here. I just hope they wont change the game up to much causing more harm then good.

Of course I have worked on a personal client. But does it give pvp advantages? No, as they are also in the lite version including a few other pvp specialized features that people requested. But on the other hand it does give non-pvp advantages like eased building, farming and few other areas.

In a game like haven the only area that advantage matters is in combat.

Change is inevitable and developers need to keep up with the changes or there game will naturally spiral into the direction they didn't intend it to.

Then the whole nature of this game is the struggle to gain advantage. Your basically arguing against the nature of the game saying that you want all advantages leveled out so you have a chance to compete to what I build

[Robben_DuMarsch]

Your game experience in on its own wasn't being affected until you were told bots existed.

How is some non-botting noob going to trade when the market prices are set by botters? When I botted, I could pull 30 pearls, 30 edel, 30 glimmer, 50 frogs crowns a day, with zero effort. With only three bots.

How is that non-botting noob going to compete without being an absolute no-lifer?

They aren't.

[GrapefruitV]

How is some non-botting noob going to trade when the market prices are set by botters?

Prices for curios are same as they were before foraging bots and same as they were before public foraging bots, so I don't see any influence. But if you take into account the fact that prices of most of the other goods were lowered by some reasonable and enthusiastic traders joining the market, you can say curios price is only growing and becoming more and more non-botters friendly.

[Robben_DuMarsch]

Prices for curios are same as they were before foraging bots and same as they were before public foraging bots, so I don't see any influence. But if you take into account the fact that prices of most of the other goods were lowered by some reasonable and enthusiastic traders joining the market, you can say curios price is only growing and becoming more and more non-botters friendly.

Sorry friend. The "point" value of items not changing is a "Special Olympics" method of measuring botting influence on the economy. The point value of the commodities only tracks their relative value to other commodities, not the real value of that commodity.

You can buy 2 LC's of botted cheese with 4 botted pearls.
You can buy 2 LC's of botted cheese with 4 hand gathered pearls.

Yes, Pearls are still worth the roughly 50 points they are valued at (although in actuality they carry a bit of a premium) but how much "stronker" is that pearl or chest of cheese going to make me compared to other characters?

I can buy 15 LC's of cheese a day with my botted pearls.
How many LC's of cheese a day can a non-botter buy with his hand gathered pearls?

^^^ That's the real metric you should be looking at, the production purchasing power parity between someone that bots and someone that does not. There is no competition.

Non-botters can't bring in comparable "production" at a similar rate to botters. They also need to work a lot harder to achieve what is ultimately going to be less payoff.

To put it in simpler terms: How amazing was a large chest full of pearls back in 2010? How amazing is a large chest full of pearls today? Not even close to the same, although the "point value" may be identical.

[GrapefruitV]

"Market prices set by botters" your exact words, which is not true. Having 10 pearls botted or not you can buy same amount of cheese and this amount was still same, when botted pearls weren't even a thing (or maybe there were 1-2 people with such bots, but iirc first pearl bot was created in late w5-early w6 and it wasn't completely automatic, so you couldn't just leave it running and get pearls later). Everything you're talking about doesn't affect market itself, especially the prices, trader simply doesn't care where those pearls came from and how much time the buyer spent to get it, those are personal problems of non-botting buyers, it would be same even if market did not exist at all (I mean no competition part). There is also no competition between people playing 1h a day and 10h a day without bots. Or with loners and 30 people villages. The only real influence on market bots can bring is underbidding, but so far botting trades were too greedy to do that apparently.

To put it in simpler terms: How amazing was a large chest full of pearls back in 2010? How amazing is a large chest full of pearls today? Not even close to the same, although the "point value" may be identical.

It is not amazing for me, person doing everything by hands (except wax harvesting), even though it was in 2010, but it is still amazing for noobs.