Curiosity system is BRILLIANT

[Jackard]

i certainly wouldnt consider farming the main aspect of h&h... although you need one to advance past the early game

[kserswilldie]

That's pretty much what you just did man. Sure there's plenty of people who don't enjoy the curiosity system, but there's also lots who do. If the game isn't your "preference" then don't play.

sept i wasn't shooting down others preferences, i was only trying to state that there is no right or wrong way to play a game or to design a game

Wow...

I wanted to comment on the rest of your drivel, but then I saw this. Please stop posting.

sweet, dodged a bullet

I've never played farmville before, but I can't imagine it being ANYTHING like Haven. Why do people always bring it up? Because both games include "farming" and people are complete fucking idiots?

lol.

[DatOneGuy]

Hmm, had missed this.

it comes down to personal preference and why, individually, we play games. you can't sit there and judge another's preference of a game just because it doesn't fit into your ideal of what a game should be.

Not every game is for everyone. In PW MMOs specifically, you either target hardcore and spill over into 'regular gamers' or you target casuals and spill over into regular gamers. The chance of you actually catching everyone from casuals to regular gamers is fucking 0, the core reasons both play games are completely different and in order to allow casuals to stand a chance you take away any chance of hardcores staying, as they have no reason to be hardcore, as the game is casual. This is especially true of PvP games.

lots of gamers enjoy instant gratification, who are you to say that's wrong or 'childish'?

Instant gratification is great, but we're not here to be tossed into skinner boxes or treated like little fucking kids or dogs. If you want instant gratification, go play any Korean MMO released in the last 20 years.

it was a system used in the past, and in many games still used, and the reason i keep hearing it was shut down was because of botters which is an issue that could be delt with by other means rather than re-vamping the whole construct of LP gain

Yeah and many games use DLC and more and more are, does that make it good? No.
Popular != Good
When you challenge something you either make it stronger, or prove it was shit.

now i'm not suggesting that one way is right or one way is wrong, or suggesting that the devs have the means of hacker/botter prevention via 3rd party programs

If you've read more than a little bit you'd probably realize that something the devs are doing which is very nice, and something most developers don't care about is that they are attempt to make a game that you don't really WANT to bot, because it's fun. Sure there is grinding, but the grind shouldn't be "oh man I'll just macro it up!", because that's boring. Curio-Only-LP is something most perceived (including myself) as an extreme change that would be too radical and not work. However, I fully embrace it now considering that you are still able to prove yourself within the system by rarer items. This lack of instant gratification only has something to do with it if you are really that dependent on it. As for hacker/botter prevention via 3rd party programs, if you're talking about things like GameGuard, I wouldn't play HnH if it had it. It's my favorite game by far, but those programs are the fucking devil and have no place anywhere on my computer.

but i don't see any reason for suggestions/inputs/opinions to be shot down while the game is still in alpha
as far as i can tell nothing has been finalized and the official release, should there be one, hasn't been announced so i would suspect that peoples opinions would mean something in terms of game development

It's being shot down because unlike other ideas that are radical changes that work, what you speak of is changing the whole system in a way that invalidates it's core purpose. In your example of separating the bars (which we've already had a fucking 20+ page topic on before and you should have just searched and read for why it's fucking stupid) because it means that you can still power level the shit out of individual bars with no consequence to the others. Even if you had suggested for example that the FEP bars be equalized to the maximum between them, but the actual foods added to each bar and you would still have to reach the max, while it's more likeable, I still probably wouldn't go for it personally. It seems too, silly. If you think that these things people are suggesting are not a problem, or that this isn't what you mean, please in detail explain exactly what you mean, or preferably draw up a nice example.

and generally if a suggestion keeps turning up over and over again it's worth looking into, or at least finding some sort of compromise

Not true.

especially when it's your alpha-testers suggesting it

While all people may be equal (Not decided yet), not all ideas or suggestions are.

and as a suggestion to all the elitist players here, it's just a game

Not liking your idea doesn't make people elitist, don't suggest stupid changes without fully experiencing the system and expect more EXPERIENCED players to not call you an idiot.

a farm ville spin off (no offense but reality check here)

Yeah, no, has almost nothing to do with farmville, fuck right back off facebook.

perma death doesn't make it hardcore, get over yourselfs lol

It's part of what does, but then again you probably don't understand this either since you can't seem to properly grasp the FEP system which is one of the easier things to understand here

[burgingham]

Good thing you just proved you have absolutely nothing to base a good argumentation on.

Edit: How did Dog manage to get his wall of text in between and how did I not notice that before?

[Potjeh]

sept i wasn't shooting down others preferences, i was only trying to state that there is no right or wrong way to play a game or to design a game

I agree, they should turn H&H into a TBS.

[Nferno44]

I like the new system, especially because you now don't see much building signs in the wild anymore, except from hunting offcoure

this is why i love the new system

[cloakblade]

@kserswilldie:
I like how snide you are with your comments towards "elitists" like you are better for being more casual. Its funny to see people turn into the monsters they most hate when fighting them. At least I'm honest about who I am and don't play a white knight. But onward to your argument so you don't just scream about ad hominem and such.

Your idea that collective is correct and we should kneel to them is a misconception often when a group gets big enough group think and other bad things start happening. Beyond that sometimes the people with the worst ideas, or just people that want to complain, have the loudest voices and often have many supporters who are also very vocal. This is what happened with Haven and the LP system change there are dozen of people who dislike the current LP system and some of them are right the system isn't perfect but those who just throw their hands up and demand, as though they have any say real say in the matter, the old LP system are often people unwilling to grow. Some did legitimately like the old LP system and found other game to play and some just choose to adapt and see if they would grow to like it. People that couldn't get over the LP system changes are children or they didn't like Haven as a game but just liked it as an Advance form of Farmville (seeing numbers get bigger). These are the same people who die will post on the forums and rage quit. These are people who you can't satisfy because at the first inconvenience they quit. They aren't stable and there will be no way to satisfy them. Its odd how the hardcore crowd will often be the easiest to satisfy as a player base. I personally, not the most hardcore person but aspiring, can be given the finger to by the devs with a massive change and keep rolling with a game. As long as the game is interesting which Haven still is, if anything the uniqueness of the LP system makes it more interesting.

Sorry for that wall I couldn't find a good way to break it up without ruining the flow. And yes its a rant, because I felt like it.

Also to comment on your Farmville comment. Sure there are similar elements but Haven has about as many core elements with Farmville as Farmville does with Chess, well maybe not but WoW for sure. You do something to get more to get more to get more. But due to the combination of complexity and PVP it become completely different as it doesn't stop after some point sure there is that awkward moment at the beginning where you have nothing to do but once you get past that there's always something to do. Compared to farmville where the only point is to click to click more to click more. Player to player interaction is reduced to only simple clicks to get more clicks. WoW is even more closely related to this but I don't think I've heard any do that comparison even though it is Farmville with grouping and dynamic player differences, which counts for a lot, but the reason I quit is simply that they make the top end the only interesting part of the game (during wrath I've heard its changed but I hate leveling). It might as well been a giant cut scene where all I want to do is press a button to make the game go faster and then said screw this its just not worth it. And the reincarnation system doesn't make the game auto hardcore its the fact that PVP is such an intricate part of the world, if WoW made a PVE server have perma-death outside of raids all it would do was make people be more cautious when questing not more hardcore.

Well I feel better. Its always fun to rant. Back to work.

Well I feel better.

[loftar]

Your idea that collective is correct and we should kneel to them is a misconception often when a group gets big enough group think and other bad things start happening. Beyond that sometimes the people with the worst ideas, or just people that want to complain, have the loudest voices and often have many supporters who are also very vocal.

I am so glad, indeed, that Haven isn't managed democratically. :)

[Daji]

Your idea that collective is correct and we should kneel to them is a misconception often when a group gets big enough group think and other bad things start happening. Beyond that sometimes the people with the worst ideas, or just people that want to complain, have the loudest voices and often have many supporters who are also very vocal.

I am so glad, indeed, that Haven isn't managed democratically. :)

oh you, sweet dictator

[ScegfOd]

best dictator ever <3