Occupy Wall Street

[VDZ]

I still don't really understand what exactly they are trying to reach with these protests.

"They have a lot of money, and we don't! This is unfair!" Sure it's unfair, but what do you think will happen by protesting? Do you think they'll go 'oh, you're right, our bad, I guess we were a little selfish' and give tons of money to 'the 99%'?

I think these protests are only a general expression of discontent. People dislike the situation they're currently in, so they blame 'them'. It's all 'their' fault. The economic crisis, the PATRIOT Act, the fact that there is poverty, 'they' are to blame for everything. It's us against them. We are the people, they are the evil, selfish, greedy, terrible '1%'.

Please tell me...just who exactly are they and how exactly did they cause everything that's currently wrong with the world?

I'm not exactly rich (need my government loan for education, rent and food) so I guess I'm part of the '99%', but I don't like where this is going. Historically, whenever in a democracy a strong 'us versus them' mentality formed, an asshole popped up in politics who said exactly what the people wanted to hear, got into a position of power that way, and made the whole thing much worse. Even the infamous Adolf Hitler was simply elected by the people because he said what the people of Germany wanted to hear: The financial crisis was their fault, the people are struggling to just live normally but because of them everything goes wrong. The 'them' in this case were the Jews.



It happens slowly. When it starts it doesn't seem like a problem, but the results can be disastrous if it continues like that. When people get into an 'us versus them' mentality they can easily be manipulated, and the ones abusing that are always the worst kind of people. I hope this is just a temporary fad and doesn't grow out of control.

[Flame]

well did you knew what happened in other places in the world to solve the problem of money?

There are lots of thing that can be done.
First, who steal must be in jail, no matter how rich he is or if he's a politician or a banker.
Second, the public debt is a debt with banks, but if baks stop beyng private and being public, there is no more debt.

There are really lots of way to solve problems. Simply is against the richers so no one will try to change it. Protest is the "We ask to you bosses to change it. Why we can ask it to you? Because we give you votes. Listen us now and you'll have vote tomorrow. Do not listen and you'll be forced to became an emperor, because the vote will drive you low."

Say that those people that protest are Bad is usefull to avoid that the message go around and convince other people to search for a change. If other people want a change, it mean that less people will vote, next time.



This is simply the democracy or wathever it's called.

Vote
Protest
Comunicate
Propose

Are the way we have to rule the government. It's simply normal use it when you want a change.

[Biytor]

I find the whole OWS protest hilarious. These dipshits have no clue, they protest the corporations while holding the hand of the very devil that caused all the grief and heartache in the first place. Ask yourself the following questions.

1.) Why haven't the two institutions that started the entire financial collapse been investigated thoroughly (Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac) ?

2.) Why were the banking rules changed in the 90's to allow trading house to act a commercial banks and commercial bank to act as trading houses ?

3.) Why were banks forced to make home loans to people who couldn't repay them ?

4.) Why were the warnings and issues brought to congress ignored as far back as 2004 ?


The answer to all that comes down to. Government interference. The US Government caused the entire debacle to happen, to the determent of the United States and the world as a whole. So why aren't these people outside the US Congress, the White House, the Federal Reserve or the offices of Fannie and Freddie ? Because they are useful idiots...

[spectacle]

Anyone who blames only the government or only wall street is a moron. Both the financial and political systems have been rigged by the elite, for the elite. The OWS movement and the government targeting Tea Party are both going to fail to achieve real change because they're seeing the whole picture, and middle class Americans will keep wondering why their standard of living is slipping.

[Biytor]

Anyone that doesn't understand cause and effect is a moron and a useful idiot.

[min_the_fair]

Biytor, I don't know if you're a troll, being sarcastic or being serious. On the offchance that you're serious, can you explain this for me:

3.) Why were banks forced to make home loans to people who couldn't repay them ?

I don't understand. Do you believe that this happened? If so, I'd like to see some evidence, please.

[MagicManICT]

What are they trying to accomplish, you say? Look at the cartoon painhertz posted. What's wrong with this picture? Why were investment bankers able to get away with the things that they were doing? We've all seen the serious, debilitating effects of a bubble collapsing multiple times over the last 400-500 years (since the invention of a free market economy).

One of the two big arguments I recall from Amercian History and Government classes in High School were how Hamilton and Jefferson clashed over how government should be run. Hamilton was of the philosophical opinion that the common man wasn't much better than sheep and that they need a shepherd to watch over them (the government). Jefferson was of the opinion that the common man was very capable of thinking for themselves and protecting themselves and needed minimal government rule. (Apologies for the skewed write up there, but my informed opinion falls with Jefferson on it, if you can't tell.) Now, it's been about 230 years since these debates, and I'll have to say: maybe Hamilton was right. Maybe the common people do need extra protection from the government so that the predators in this world don't eat them up like lost sheep. (I'm still not sold that you can't teach the average person how to protect themselves, though. If you shepherd someone enough, they'll just expect it and not try to think for themselves.)

The funny (bad, not haha) thing about this whole economy collapse is...it's the bankers that did it to themselves and took the rest of the country, even world, down with it. If they were insulated from everyone else, then who would have given a two-bit fuck about it? They aren't, though. Much like the proverbial butterfly, everything they do has a reverberating effect on the rest of the world. This is where the two philosophies collide: how much government regulation is not enough and how much is too much?

I can tell you this probably wouldn't have happened after the banking regulations that went into effect in the 30s as a result of the Great Depression. It took erosion of those regulations starting as early as the 80s under Reagan (if I recall right, might have been as early as the 60s). The other issue is: either nobody called any/enough attention to the potential toxicity of the assets being created and traded OR someone did call attention to them and to the right party and it was summarily swept under the rug (either because of ignorance or a large sum of money).

Another issue: Wall Street banks received hundreds of billions in bailout money at taxpayer expense. (Note: It should be known that the money is effectively preferred stock--non-voting shares--in said banks with interest being paid annually.) All the while, many politicians are blocking regulations that would increase government funds for the poor and middle class.

Someone earlier mentioned something about it being a bunch of "kids" (ie college students) protesting. I'm not sure anyone has done any surveys and published them, but from looking at what's been on the news, I'd say the average age is around 30-35. I've seen retirees in those pictures, I've seen out of work union members. This could be something that changes the political climate in the USA for decades. It could be subtle, it could be overwhelming. It's not the time to say or predict, just to watch and even participate in, no matter which side you're on.

[kohg]

Yeah bernie Madoff was not arrested and get life in prison.

[MagicManICT]

1.) Why haven't the two institutions that started the entire financial collapse been investigated thoroughly (Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac) ?

Are they the ones that started it? Really? Before making accusations, you need to provide proof, otherwise it's just a conspiracy. However, it's a good question. I'm going to have to agree that they haven't been investigated well enough. It's like the House and Senate are afraid to look into the closet because they might find skeletons.

2.) Why were the banking rules changed in the 90's to allow trading house to act a commercial banks and commercial bank to act as trading houses ?

Yes, why were they? I think I can sum it up in one word: "Lobbyists". It wasn't just trading houses and commerce banks, either. It included insurance companies, too.

3.) Why were banks forced to make home loans to people who couldn't repay them ?

I wasn't aware of this. Like min said, proof please. From my understanding, it was all the $$$ they saw. Either they made the loan and the borrower repaid the loan in full (profit) or the borrower defaulted and the bank would get to foreclose and collect an insurance fee from derivatives (profit). It was almost as if the bank was given license to print their own money. (Who in their right mind would give a bank permission to do that?) I don't think any of the bankers involved ran scared because it was like a game of chicken: the first dodge the oncoming collision would be seen as the loser when instead it's the guys crashing a careening all over the place that end up losing. (except papa government is here to bail out anyone too big to fail)

4.) Why were the warnings and issues brought to congress ignored as far back as 2004 ?

My question is: why weren't warnings being raised much earlier than this? The mortgage backed derivatives started being traded in the late 90s. Why were any flags raised when they were created?

I find the whole OWS protest hilarious. These dipshits have no clue, they protest the corporations while holding the hand of the very devil that caused all the grief and heartache in the first place.

What is the government (by devil, I'm assuming you mean government)? Can a government exist separate from the human body it was created to rule over? No, it can not. If our (US citizen's) government is that much of a disease on our civilization, then we need to surgically remove it and replace it with a new one. We have constitutionally granted means of doing so. It is up to each and every citizen to exercise their rights. Remember: rights are much like muscles in the body--use 'em or lose 'em.

[MagicManICT]

Yeah bernie Madoff was not arrested and get life in prison.

Mr Madoff did things outside the boundaries of the law. That's why he was busted for what he did. The collective of the Wall Street banks worked within the boundaries of the law to pretty much do the same thing. When they got caught with their hand too deep into the cookie jar, instead of being busted down like they should have been, they just got government welfare because if they collapsed, they'd take the world economy into the toilet along the way.

Why should any corporation or group of corporations be allowed to get so large that if it collapses, the world's economy goes with it?