Salem Goes Open Beta

[Kaios]

lol, hum, in a game so rich and pregnant with possiblilties ansd things to do/accomplish, me thinks only a very immature intellectually challenged individual would only see the above as "Fun" or the potential of a world sandbox like h&h...jussss sayin...lol

Don't poke the bear applies here nicely I'd say. Aside from that, salem sucks and I'm glad most of you agree.

[Sweetness]

i think i should get out of this discussion because it's plain "supress the freedom of the majority to tame a minority"

I don't think that - I think we need a better game balance so that other players are not the only risk in the game. Basically if you know how to spam click to escape from animals while you are unconscious the only danger in the game is other players, and that wouldn't be a problem if not for the fact that the majority of players have no means of protecting themselves from a high level player who takes pleasure in pvp - I'd like to see some risk - if only a small one to the guy in plate mail and silk merchants robes who decides to go mow his way through some farmers. His walls and the investment to get through those walls means that he's safe from retaliation, so I'd like to see something as simple as a five percent chance of the low level player getting in a lucky shot - but what I've seen a lot of is players who do not yet have any combat skills or any armor with no recourse at all when the violence starts. They can't even run. You can either stay logged in and watch your character die, or log out and not watch it.

For example, suppose if when a high level player rendered your character helpless they were given the option of extorting a ransom? Currently in the game they have no incentive to do that since of course the moment you are not aggro'd by them you are outta there and they get nothing. Perhaps they could negotiate to gain a percentage of your xp increase for a set period of time - so if Knronos the Merciless lays my character flat out, he can offer me a choice of turning over half all the xp I gain for the next ten days in return for walking away. There are a lot of ways that the game could be tinkered with that help deal with the fact that once the mines are sealed up in claims it's all a foregone conclusion. For example there could be two lines of power, one of which is metallurgy and is limited to the few most intrepid and the other of which is magic that nobody can get a monopoly on it. How would the game change if any attacker had a minimum of a 1% change of being killed, and a 4% chance of having to share his lp gains and the remaining 95% was balanced by the comparative strengths and skills of the two players engaged in combat? There are ways of changing the power balance that doesn't mean that the strong, smart and organized and fast of the mark get condemned to be no better than the slow, shuffling and stupid. (Note, I consider myself in the latter class.)

Currently I think most players can get only so far and unless you are part of one of those large well organized groups it becomes frustrating, not fun. I need metal. The only way I can get metal is by picking and trading hundreds of chanterelles and even then of course I will only be allowed to purchase just enough metal to keep me from being able to compete. And to get that I have do do really, really boring stuff, more boring than grinding...

Meanwhile that group of higher level players can produce alts with high level stats quite cheaply by tossing expensive study objects into the mentory and pretty much ignoring them otherwise. So let's say the other three players who were good and dedicated and joined when the world was new and teamed up to claim all the mines in the nearest two quadrants quit, the one remaining member of the village has no incentive to go to the risk of accepting replacement village members. He can keep the village going alone quite handily, him and his alts, by only checking in from time to time to restock the mentories and kill a few bears. -He's even claimed a huge chunk of land where no one can settle to ensure a steady supply of bears.

When the game began it was a small community and J & H really had to encourage the players to begin the pvp. I don't think they need quite so many incentives to get the players to be impolite to each other now! So they introduced the scarcity of mines in order to give the players something to fight over. Right now that is working the opposite way - You needn't bother attacking anyone who has a mine and access to metal. You just go after the guys who don't have it because you know they can neither defend themselves well, nor retaliate.

edit: completed last paragraph

[Oddity]

But it just wont come through for me. The graphics kinda hurt my eyes in a "Wurmish" way and no matter how I tried I couldn't find any magic. (Think someone in a post mentioned the magic of H&H and they were spot on, on that note). I foraged and I crafted an I built and seemingly the whole time it was "yawn". I keep wondering to myself "Isn't this what I do here? Don't I toil in the fields and run around picking curios and scavanging and on and on here too?" Yes I do, so why does it seem interesting here but not there?..lol Is it that doing those things here, in this atmosphere and graphics, seem unique? Whereas doing it there seems like I'm in a poor knockoff of WOWism with mechanics that don't work with those graphics? I don't know, I only know that in 12 hours of gameplay I don't think I smiled or thought "That's neat" once. It all felt clumbsy and unsatisfying no matter how hard I tried to "get into it".

I know what you mean

[dra6o0n]

Easier to call it "Sims 3 with permadeath and violence"...

[TeckXKnight]

Easier to call it "Sims 3 with permadeath and violence"...

The inability to set your character on fire automatically disqualifies it from being Sims 3. Half of Sims 3 was just setting your little toon on fire.

[painhertz]

Easier to call it "Sims 3 with permadeath and violence"...

The inability to set your character on fire automatically disqualifies it from being Sims 3. Half of Sims 3 was just setting your little toon on fire.

This ++

[bitza]

i think i should get out of this discussion because it's plain "supress the freedom of the majority to tame a minority"

let me see if i can explain it a different way, to show how swimming bears would help the majority more than the minority:

back in early world 4, the goons and i were having a bit of difficulty locating good clay. one of the fellas had managed to scout a claimed spot in the next grid over. but it was not only claimed, but populated - 1 or 2 people were living at this clay spot next to the river.

this was only a couple weeks into the world, but i was able to skill up a reasonably good character with over 50 ua and marksman, murder, vandalism, and lawspeaking. because i was getting the majority of LP from hunting, i hadn't spent much LP on exploration or farming or survival or much else at all besides combat. and someone had made me a good sling made out of bears with leather from tanning tubs made with a bear saw. naturally i killed every bear i saw with it, even though it was boring as fuck and there was 0% of danger from the bear, it was damn good LP in those days.

so because a bear saw and a bear sling and bear teeth and antlers were so easy to get, the plan was, that i would move my character out to this clay spot in the next SG and try to stealthily establish a vidol near their claim, close enough to declaim as well as having the ability to port in support to help kill or harass these guys into leaving.

this was all made possible because of killing bears from a boat in the first week of the new world. for whatever reason, these dudes at the clay spot were unable to build an idol - either the LP or the teeth or antlers were too hard to get, or they just didn't see the need for an idol over their q70 clay but, as an experienced player in an organized group i was in the position to take over their resource and probably kill them.

but, our plan never came to fruition - as i was walking over to this grid, you know what happened? i spotted a bear a good ways inland (too far, really) from the lake, i tried to kite him to the shore, hit a lag spike and the bear murdered me that's divine justice for ya. the noobies and their land were saved by a murderous bear

[Kaios]

Not only that but a good portion of the playerbase (I know I did eventually) did the exact same thing in terms of one or two guys boating around just killing bears and other shit all day. Then to make matters worse Jorb and Loftar implemented the curiosity update and removed the LP from animal and players kills thus leaving quite a large gap between those who abused this as fast and efficiently as possible and newer players or those who just weren't aware of it or didn't bother in the first place. In fact I think it was possible to get full LP from just one bear kill for multiple people if you did it correctly.

I agree that the game certainly could use a lot more dangers besides just the players....and the lag.

[Oddity]

bitza makes many good points, and I will take them all into account when I create H&H II

[mvgulik]

do you think you're still able to handle a bear at 30 marksman if it can swim?

Assuming dead bears don't instantly sink of course, or else there would not even be any point in trying.
Also assuming swimming bears can swim forever, or else you might only need one stone and a lot of time.

Making the bear turn around(flee) when it can't reach its target might work better. (CQ: smarter IA)