★R-18 ★ Prostitution Law

[Tonkyhonk]

Yes, I do blame them. You should look at the numbers, it's not like every single soldier goes for a rape on the first girl they see, in modern armies.
Also, was I not to blame them, I would certainly blame their education, their trainers or their lax command. That's the difference between trying to solve a problem and saying "All men are potential rapists, we can't help it, prepare your vagina".

but men are potential rapists though it is much better if you try to educate both genders, not just men. also, it is not "prepare your vagina" but "hide yours or expect the worst". (ofc, its not like you could hide it at wars.)
well, anyways, its great that you are so confident. i just hope everyone gets good educations soon enough so we have no wars to suffer from.

You're talking about all the problems in Europe and in the states. Do you want to know why some of them and many others were solved ? Because some people stood up and said "No matter how, this has to change".

well, its great that you feel many problems are solved. i dont.

http://www.refworld.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/rwmain?page=country&category=&publisher=&type=&coi=JPN&rid=4562d8cf2&docid=4a4214b0c&skip=0
I'm not giving the link as a definite proof, but as the result of a shallow inquiry by myself, merely to refute your "all is well in japanese brothels". Again, I would be very interested in knowing more about the conditions of work for this business in Japan and I have no set idea about it, but when it comes to the social origin of prostitutes in japan, I would be very surprised if I learnt it was different from anywhere else.

Many foreign and Japanese women initially enter the sex industry voluntarily, only to find themselves victims of involuntary servitude.

fyi, i did not say "all is well" but i dont blame you for not reading every post i made in this thread. ofc im not friends with all girls in sex industry, and there probably are many forced victims too as you want to believe. what i said is "forced" ones are minority as of late, and whoever entered the industry on their own will should know better what is waiting for them. i myself have tried to talk to some girls, but most of the time their greed wins. if you decide to get paid by taking off your own clothes, staying in a small room naked with a man(or men) alone, i would not like to call that "forced". those who intentionally enter the industry are trying to use the industry or men as their tool for money. (now this is different from "wearing sexy outfits means rape me sign". "looks like seducing" and "intentionally seducing" are different. also, just because i said this, i am not saying we should give up "education", nor im saying its fair enough. i am trying to be realistic here.)

But simply denying there's a problem and encouraging people to support such an industry is certainly not going to solve anything.

again, i did not deny the problems lying behind prostitutions and its industry, as i keep on saying that i personally do not agree, which you seem to skip reading. (but i did say there is a point.)

[Tonkyhonk]

so far, "taxing" seems to be the most convincing reasoning for recent new legalizations in america.

Not really although that will likely be a windfall. The Baby Boomer Generation is giving way to Gen X and we (Gen X) have always been more disposed to drug culture in general. In other words, the old farts who were in control for the last 20-30 years had that whole "marijauana is a dangerous drug" crap hammered into their heads, we on the other hands tried it and dfound out that that's bullshit.

hmm, is marijuana really not dangerous? i cannot really tell myself since ive never tried one, and im not a scientist to know such.
(i did have some opportunities to try it when i was in the states, but i politely declined all the time im such a goody-goodie, but not goodie enough to report it to teachers or the police.)

also, is it the only reason to have banned marijuana that it was believed to be dangerous? do people in the states find this marijuana prohibition the same as alcohol prohibition? did not sound like so in the articles i have read, though.

and why do you think some people are trying to make prostitution legal in the states if not for taxing?

[borka]

Marijuana isn't dangerous - but it has dangers but also a lot of pro sides when used carefully - it can help a lot in medical situations like muscle diseases or cancer as it relaxes

Probably it's the best recreational drug that is (if you want to use some) and with careful usage it doesn't do harm

Kids shouldn't use Marijuana as it slows down or even hinder their development (parents shouldn't smoke it with Kids in the house - they'd better eat or drink it)

steady usage increases forgetfulness as it influences Short-term memory - thus trouble in school, education...(example: after i stopped using it few years ago i realized that i could memorize all my account passwords right away again - even those with 16+ digits - before i always had to look into the txtfiles )

Concentration gets defocused, Reaction is slowed - so don't drive or do dangerous work (Marijuana is dangerous when you want functioning soldiers or policemen )

Mental Disorders like Depressions can intensify when using Marijuana

Overdose of Marijuana can make you paranoid (while being high) ( eat an Orange or drink citron/Lemon juice helps )

While Morphine, Alcohol, Tobacco etc. are truly addicting - Marijuana can only lead to a habit of dependence - very very seldom it comes to Physical withdrawal symptoms when stopping to use it...

[painhertz]

so far, "taxing" seems to be the most convincing reasoning for recent new legalizations in america.

Not really although that will likely be a windfall. The Baby Boomer Generation is giving way to Gen X and we (Gen X) have always been more disposed to drug culture in general. In other words, the old farts who were in control for the last 20-30 years had that whole "marijauana is a dangerous drug" crap hammered into their heads, we on the other hands tried it and dfound out that that's bullshit.

hmm, is marijuana really not dangerous? i cannot really tell myself since ive never tried one, and im not a scientist to know such.
(i did have some opportunities to try it when i was in the states, but i politely declined all the time im such a goody-goodie, but not goodie enough to report it to teachers or the police.)

also, is it the only reason to have banned marijuana that it was believed to be dangerous? do people in the states find this marijuana prohibition the same as alcohol prohibition? did not sound like so in the articles i have read, though.

and why do you think some people are trying to make prostitution legal in the states if not for taxing?

From what I understand of Marijuana Prohibition it took place because it was predominately coming from Mexico and tons of Mexicans were coming along with it and basically to STOP the influx of Mexicans into the U.S. they criminilized it "without a tax stamp". Yes, marijuana is techinically legal in the U.S. but only if you have a tax stamp, which they don't and have never produced. Interesting eh?

Here we go....

"The Mexican Connection

In the early 1900s, the western states developed significant tensions regarding the influx of Mexican-Americans. The revolution in Mexico in 1910 spilled over the border, with General Pershing’s army clashing with bandit Pancho Villa. Later in that decade, bad feelings developed between the small farmer and the large farms that used cheaper Mexican labor. Then, the depression came and increased tensions, as jobs and welfare resources became scarce.

One of the “differences” seized upon during this time was the fact that many Mexicans smoked marijuana and had brought the plant with them, and it was through this that California apparently passed the first state marijuana law, outlawing “preparations of hemp, or loco weed.”

However, one of the first state laws outlawing marijuana may have been influenced, not just by Mexicans using the drug, but, oddly enough, because of Mormons using it. Mormons who traveled to Mexico in 1910 came back to Salt Lake City with marijuana. The church’s reaction to this may have contributed to the state’s marijuana law. (Note: the source for this speculation is from articles by Charles Whitebread, Professor of Law at USC Law School in a paper for the Virginia Law Review, and a speech to the California Judges Association (sourced below). Mormon blogger Ardis Parshall disputes this.)

Other states quickly followed suit with marijuana prohibition laws, including Wyoming (1915), Texas (1919), Iowa (1923), Nevada (1923), Oregon (1923), Washington (1923), Arkansas (1923), and Nebraska (1927). These laws tended to be specifically targeted against the Mexican-American population.

When Montana outlawed marijuana in 1927, the Butte Montana Standard reported a legislator’s comment: “When some beet field peon takes a few traces of this stuff… he thinks he has just been elected president of Mexico, so he starts out to execute all his political enemies.” In Texas, a senator said on the floor of the Senate: “All Mexicans are crazy, and this stuff [marijuana] is what makes them crazy.”

[marbleveins]

so, if I am below 18 I have these laws censored? and because I'm below 18 I can't talk about this? talking about education? hello!!

[dagrimreefah]

The reason weed is severely regulated by the federal goons is the same reason the feds get involved in regulating any market or good:

False Scarcity

Remember that term, kids.

False Scarcity

Want to know why something that costs ~$10 a pound to produce costs you ~$2000 a pound to obtain?

False Scarcity

Cartels love

False Scarcity

Druglords love

False Scarcity

[pyrale]

but men are potential rapists though it is much better if you try to educate both genders, not just men. also, it is not "prepare your vagina" but "hide yours or expect the worst". (ofc, its not like you could hide it at wars.)
well, anyways, its great that you are so confident. i just hope everyone gets good educations soon enough so we have no wars to suffer from.

I guess we're not going to agree on anything. First because I don't see people as potential rapists (what else ? Potential murderers, potential slavers, potential torturers, etc ? Should we legalize all of these things too, so that it's done with ethics ?), and second because I see no reason to accept something as immoveable. And why should ?

If people were bending to every human vice, we would still have oldschool slavery, forced weddings, legal apartheid, the right to kill people at everyone's sight and to get away with it, etc (yep, there's a lot of things that changed, even though you don't seem to acknowledge it). You're saying there's many more problems ? Great, let's solve them. Not comply with them. History showed we CAN do it.

btw I don't really understand your point about educating women too. Men and women are not educated separately, they live and learn in the same society. Education means changing the society, not simply teaching a job or learning a poem.

i myself have tried to talk to some girls, but most of the time their greed wins. if you decide to get paid by taking off your own clothes, staying in a small room naked with a man(or men) alone, i would not like to call that "forced". those who intentionally enter the industry are trying to use the industry or men as their tool for money. (now this is different from "wearing sexy outfits means rape me sign". "looks like seducing" and "intentionally seducing" are different. also, just because i said this, i am not saying we should give up "education", nor im saying its fair enough. i am trying to be realistic here.)

What do you know about them ? Do they have other valuable skills ? Were they provided with a good education ? Do they have the ability to sustain themselves without these funds ? For some of them, atleast, the document I quoted seems to answer "No". Obviously, people work for money. But you're talking about their greed like they're already having all they need and are only doing this job in order to get even more.

Now you will probably say that (almost) everyone's forced to work for money, and you're right. That's why there are (or should be) laws protecting the workers and forbidding the most dangerous activities (and prostitution is one of them), obviously.

If you want a peek on what happens with no regulation and/or with no enforcement of said regulation, you can look at what happened during late XIX/early XXth century.

[ValerieHallaway]

Here's a scary thought for you folks. The USA is the worst country for Human Trafficking. California is the the worst for specifically children. The Capital is the 2nd worst city.
Human trafficking is essentially enslavement for the purposes of labor or sex. Sex trafficking is the most prevalent here.
The worst part, it's the massage parlors. Right in plain sight. Right where everyone knows it exists. And there's nothing anyone is doing about it.
Not the politicians, not the people. It makes me sick.

Text

While yes, morality is important to uphold in our laws and society, the limit is where that line is drawn. What is and isn't a moral choice? Let a woman starve, or let her feed herself with a high risk trade off?
It's a difficult question to answer, one might immediately jump to: help her feed herself, but with any public aid, there will not just be the ones in dire need flocking to receive it. One woman can fall through the cracks, just like thousands of others can.
'Legalizing' it is like taking a terminal patient and making them comfortable before the end.
Nothing can be done, nothing we currently know or have can cure the cancer, or stop the prostitution, or keep a druggie clean.
It's a better fight won that will help make sure they get drugs that aren't cut, a clean body, and access to contraceptives.

You are basing your opinion off of the belief that the world can be a better place if we throw enough money at it.
Take a look at Maslow's Hierarchy of Need. What is right there at the core of our being? the lizard brain NEEDS?
Food, water, excretion, shelter, sex.
You cannot remove something so base from society, it doesn't work that way. Love and relationships are much higher on the list than a quick fuck, that's just 'the way it is'.
Speed up our evolution, you might get better headway that way.

[pyrale]

While yes, morality is important to uphold in our laws and society, the limit is where that line is drawn. What is and isn't a moral choice? Let a woman starve, or let her feed herself with a high risk trade off?

Mind you, I didn't talk about morality. I talked about a set of rules creating a healthy environment, both socially (ever wonder why people came to imagine communism ?) and economically (read Fordism - although that model will ptobably have to be constrained by the availability of ressources in the XXIth century).

You're saying that someone should be allowed to take a very risky job to feed him/herself ? Should it be allowed that they take a master and become slaves to have someone to provide for their needs ? The law says no. This wasn't decided because it was morally wrong, it was decided not only because it created what was seen as an unfair pressure on slave-free states, but also because this situation created civil disorder.

Similarly, laws have to be taken to regulate work, not only because it does create a pressure on other jobs, but also because this pressure creates civil disorder. e.g. Ludlow.

It's a difficult question to answer, one might immediately jump to: help her feed herself, but with any public aid, there will not just be the ones in dire need flocking to receive it. One woman can fall through the cracks, just like thousands of others can.

As you may have noticed, I don't talk about aid anywhere. We could discuss about it, but honestly I think this would lead us offtopic.

You are basing your opinion off of the belief that the world can be a better place if we throw enough money at it.

How much money had to be thrown to abolish segregation in the US ? Changing something is not necessarily all about money.

Take a look at Maslow's Hierarchy of Need. What is right there at the core of our being? the lizard brain NEEDS?
Food, water, excretion, shelter, sex.

It would take some time to discuss, but you're making a very basic interpretation of the theory and also totally ignoring the research that's been done on this topic beyond Maslow's. The original pyramid is certainly not a monolithic block of undiscuted truth on mankind as you seem to think.

[Tonkyhonk]

Concentration gets defocused, Reaction is slowed ... can make you paranoid

ha ha, thanks for tips. doesnt sound like something id like to try anyways even though im already addicted to tobacco.

"The Mexican Connection
In Texas, a senator said on the floor of the Senate: “All Mexicans are crazy, and this stuff [marijuana] is what makes them crazy.”

jeez... the senator must have been already crazy by marijuana??? oh well thanks, nice read.

so, if I am below 18 I have these laws censored? and because I'm below 18 I can't talk about this? talking about education? hello!!

its R-18 so your mum would know i have already warned and you didnt bother. join at your own risk.

...

already stoned?

I guess we're not going to agree on anything. First because I don't see people as potential rapists (what else ? Potential murderers, potential slavers, potential torturers, etc ? Should we legalize all of these things too, so that it's done with ethics ?), and second because I see no reason to accept something as immoveable. And why should ?

its something we call "objective" thought, pyrale. you dont necessarily have to see them as potential ~someone~, but expecting each to be an idealistic person as you hope is not realistic, thus i find it rather subjective and could not see as working solutions.

If people were bending to every human vice, we would still have oldschool slavery, forced weddings, legal apartheid, the right to kill people at everyone's sight and to get away with it, etc (yep, there's a lot of things that changed, even though you don't seem to acknowledge it). You're saying there's many more problems ? Great, let's solve them. Not comply with them. History showed we CAN do it.

let me ask, how do you decide when a problem is solved? maybe your glass of problems is half empty while mine is half full?

What do you know about them ? Do they have other valuable skills ? Were they provided with a good education ? Do they have the ability to sustain themselves without these funds ? For some of them, atleast, the document I quoted seems to answer "No". Obviously, people work for money. But you're talking about their greed like they're already having all they need and are only doing this job in order to get even more.

you can provide yourself with better information by searching on internet since you would believe internet info better, right? no point in discussion here.

If you want a peek on what happens with no regulation and/or with no enforcement of said regulation, you can look at what happened during late XIX/early XXth century.

and you see what happened even after french government did make a regulation of not building BMC.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bordel_mil ... e_campagne
not saying making regulation is bad, though. just saying you cannot just expect everyone to act like a saint just because you have education or regulations.

While yes, morality is important to uphold in our laws and society, the limit is where that line is drawn. What is and isn't a moral choice?

what makes it even harder is that morals change as time goes by too.
thanks, val, i always enjoy your posts.