Running Away in Combat

[Ninijutsu]

Spears would be amazing, also my vote for how to change movement punches would be let it break 100% def, but do no damage whatsoever

So you want people to be invincible while moving?

[DDDsDD999]

give images of spears please!! are they light 1h spears or more like pikes/halberds?

I'll get it equipped on a player sometime with my server emulator or something. Then there will be more pictures

Please show dragons, large boats, windswords and horses also

All of those except windsword aren't in the haven-res.jar. Spears is in it though.

[Zeronine]

Spears would be amazing, also my vote for how to change movement punches would be let it break 100% def, but do no damage whatsoever

So you want people to be invincible while moving?

Nope, what I was reffering to was simply allowing a full def bar guy to get hit while moving and thus lose all of his defense, if say, you get hit at 50% def, you would hit the guy with half of your potential damage etc.

Just to clarify.

This way you don't get instantly oneshot by a movement hit, but it's still a very real threat to not be taken lightly.

[rye130]

I think a Hamstring move with a somewhat high cooldown would be a neat fix as long as it only had a slowing effect if hit while moving. That way there is still room for non-fatally outplaying your opponent while trying to run away. If you are being chase by 4 guys and 1 comes up close on you to try and hamstring you, you can clip him, hamstring him when he tries to move around and gain some ground on him. Or alternatively you could stop and his hamstring would have no effect. It brings back some of the skill of movement combat while making it not as "HAHA ONE-SHOTTED YOU SCRUB" fatal because currently, you can run around and chase as close to someone as you want with really no risk.

[dagrimreefah]

You are at 25% of your defensive weight when moving.

The other guy hits for 100% attack, even if attack bar is at 0%, while you're moving.

Problem solved.

[BloodyGuestUsers]

While my opinion on the subject is automatically invalid due to the fact i've not experienced nearly as many chases and pvp situation as most of the others here i will try to make an argument either way:

I always felt like the move damage is an incredibly lazy fix to running away which got implemented because "well nobody is going to be this dedicated and stupid to forfeit combat system completely and just click around for half an hour trying to 'movement hit' " but what do you know. To me it just seems like an obvious exploit of, again, not a perfect fix, i'm mostly mentioning that to clarify i would find combat system better served with movement combat gone. Completely.

But getting back to the thread topic - running away is an obvious problem, because with the current setup one of the two parties involved in pvp almost always attempts to run away at one point or another, so it's safe to say at least 80% of pvp situation will have some chasing involved in them. Now obvious issue with it is "infinite" running, when both players move at the same speed, the reason it's infinite is because of the buckets and for the life of me i can't see why, but i'm probably missing something, this shouldn't be fixed sometime, in it's current state all it does is separate two-week old players (not yet carrying 2+ buckets) from the rest who get exciting gameplay of refiling and clicking drink, and the rest would kill two-weeks old in straight combat anyway. It cancels out gameplay effect of stamina bar and, more importantly, it doesn't provide any meaningful mechanics for players to interact with (and bitching 'i just forgot my buckets' in congress isn't a meaningful mechanic) it creates a load of gameplay inconvenience providing no benefit. Here is the suggestions for fixes:
More restrictive — not allowed to refill anything from a bucket while aggroed, simple enough.
More laid back — refilling from a bucket has an animation alike filling something from a well, that must complete for effects to take place.

Secondly - choosing "drink" from a container stops running, and of course choosing to move stops drinking, as it does now.

This will make the sheer time in which players are essentially the same speed much shorter thus making stamina, current and potential, a more strategic resource in any chase, additionally it gives a little more value to water quality (since it's assumed both players will have less of it) and choice of water-containers. Now of course there will still be professional pvp warriors with inventory of flasks, but getting even there is a step in the right direction.

Now given the above there is a good way to reward an attacker (or pursuer) for hitting the running target. Let in be a normal attack in every way except that it drains stamina, but that's an easier way. Better yet make it a buff condition that takes some seconds to wear off (and of course stacks) that, while character is under, will drain his stamina rapidly if he runs. Theoretically this will force the defender into a combat situation after receiving a movement hit, where he tries to win some time, to get rid of debuff, defending, after which he attempts to run for it again.

Now, granted, the proposed isn't a dramatic change and doesn't offer too many meaningful choices for participants to make, but again, it seems like a step in a right direction. The general idea that chasing is, first and foremost, about managing your stamina just seems intuitive and like it's might be fun. Maybe getting this done at the moment gives bigger advantage to a person with higher stats, but that should be tackled in another manner either way, using ridiculous exploits is no way to balance the combat, it's a way to impress your mom about how mean of a pk you are.

As a topping — what if armor, depending on the piece, would increase stamina drain on a running character (bonus points for armor pieces in the inventory and not only those worn by the character) giving escapee an option to abandon his armor (and in doing so his pride) in attempt to save his life, and giving the pursuer some scent free trophies of his moral victory.

But again, i could easily be way off here, as i only did 'static combat' whenever i could.

[DDDsDD999]

Water quality is already too useful
The armor thing would just mean everyone would keep armor in inventory, until the enemy attacks.

[MurderAlt]

You are at 25% of your defensive weight when moving.

The other guy hits for 100% attack, even if attack bar is at 0%, while you're moving.

Problem solved.

[DeadlyPencil]

They should remove water qualities effect on stamina as well, its not realistic anyways.

[bmjclark]

Removing water qualities effects on stamina makes things worse because you could fill up in any old river and it would be as good as your other water. At least now, if you fill up in a river that's q 10 you're in trouble if you have to sprint. If you think running forever is a problem now, just wait till you remove the effects of quality on water