ITT: We Discuss Whether free Will exists

[Alubag]

Each human has a will. Does each human have free will? Well, free from what, the constraints his own mind places on him? I think that this discussion may simply revolve around our definition of the term "free" in this context. What we know, is that a humans thoughts are governed by completely logical processes in his own brain, and i myself fail to see how so called "quantum indeterminism" would somehow make a mans thoughts any less "free".

I am also of the opinion that "random" is a concept invented by humans, for which there is no actual representation in the natural world. How would you explain the phenomena "random" to me? Come to think of it, i don't understand the concept of "random". But that's another discussion.

[overtyped]

Each human has a will. Does each human have free will? Well, free from what, the constraints his own mind places on him? I think that this discussion may simply revolve around our definition of the term "free" in this context. What we know, is that a humans thoughts are governed by completely logical processes in his own brain, and i myself fail to see how so called "quantum indeterminism" would somehow make a mans thoughts any less "free".

I am also of the opinion that "random" is a concept invented by humans, for which there is no actual representation in the natural world. How would you explain the phenomena "random" to me? Come to think of it, i don't understand the concept of "random". But that's another discussion.

I agree with you, random chance doesn't exist.
If you were to throw a dice, if we could measure how hard it was thrown, how high it was thrown, the air pressure, the velocity of the dice, the hardness of the ground before it hits and what angle it will strike the ground, then anyone could know without any error what side that dice would come up.
Random events are an illusion.

I know this would be unthinkable for someone if it contradicted with their religious belief that random events are the will of their sky deity.
As an atheist however I have no dogma that makes me willfully hold the wool over my own eyes, and the same holds true for the subject in question.

[Ninijutsu]

Free will, to me, means that our course through life and our actions/decisions, cannot be predicted. As it stands, it sure seems like it can be, but the point about "quantum indeterminism" is that there is a level of absolute unpredictability. Uncertainty of whether this level of probabilistic behavior in particles significantly affects macroscopic processes is what keeps me on the fence (leaning toward lack of free will (in this respect)).

[overtyped]

Free will, to me, means that our course through life and our actions/decisions, cannot be predicted. As it stands, it sure seems like it can be, but the point about "quantum indeterminism" is that there is a level of absolute unpredictability. Uncertainty of whether this level of probabilistic behavior in particles significantly affects macroscopic processes is what keeps me on the fence (leaning toward lack of free will (in this respect)).

I had quite a long think about this.
If you define randomness as chance then randomness exists
If you define randomness as outside the range of measurement then that means randomness does not exist.
The reason being, if you include everything in the world and the universe, including all thoughts you have the capacity to have or think up, then that itself means it's not random, since it's within your calculations.
See how easy it is to prove something if you think about it logically.

[Unostop]

I think this will add to the discussion, so ill place it here.


I know it deals with mental illness, but it touches on free will in our society.

[overtyped]

I think this will add to the discussion, so ill place it here.

I know it deals with mental illness, but it touches on free will in our society.

Mental people adjusting to society has got nothing to do with free will. You may as well saved your time and posted a picture of a cat, because at least that's cute. That's about how relevant your post is.
It is interesting though, about society being normal and we are all abnormal having adjusted to it. I think he's saying our brain developing to conform to society has made us able to be a part of society, and a human raised to adulthood away from that society would not be able to adjust properly to it since society is our normal and his normal would be incompatible.

[Unostop]

I think this will add to the discussion, so ill place it here.

I know it deals with mental illness, but it touches on free will in our society.

That has got nothing to do with free will. You may as well saved your time and posted a picture of a cat, because at least that's cute.
That's about how relevant your post is to that lol.

Apparently popular opinions don't affect free will. I assume all the people with noses buried deep into their cell phones is something we'd all do even if it wasn't so "fashionable".
People never do anything that their peers do, unless they want to. Environment has no effect on our development as a person.
Sarcasm aside. Your life is planned out for you when youre born. We are expected to learn, work, marry, procreate, follow fashions, save for old age, etc. If you vary to much from these "Norms" than you will not have a "fulfilling" life. It is engrained into us early on and many wouldn't think of stepping outside the popular norms. So I believe it is relevant. Personally I'd rather you post cat pictures instead of constantly showing disdain for any opinion other than your own.

[overtyped]

I think this will add to the discussion, so ill place it here.

I know it deals with mental illness, but it touches on free will in our society.

That has got nothing to do with free will. You may as well saved your time and posted a picture of a cat, because at least that's cute.
That's about how relevant your post is to that lol.

Apparently popular opinions don't affect free will. I assume all the people with noses buried deep into their cell phones is something we'd all do even if it wasn't so "fashionable".
People never do anything that their peers do, unless they want to. Environment has no effect on our development as a person.
Sarcasm aside. Your life is planned out for you when youre born. We are expected to learn, work, marry, procreate, follow fashions, save for old age, etc. If you vary to much from these "Norms" than you will not have a "fulfilling" life. It is engrained into us early on and many wouldn't think of stepping outside the popular norms. So I believe it is relevant. Personally I'd rather you post cat pictures instead of constantly showing disdain for any opinion other than your own.

That isn't what i wrote, quote me properly. I explained what was said in that picture.
I would say the environment may have something to tell us about whether or not our actions are free, but that isn't what's written in the picture.

[Unostop]

I quoted exactly what you had written before you edited it. I guess I was just to quick on the draw.
As for the edited post. A Normal in relative to an abnormal society is what he said was a mental illness. In such environments a person is molded into what that abnormal society expects, and that millions go through life actually abnormal(mentally ill) to what these people would normally be if not for the abnormal society in which they grew up in

[overtyped]

I quoted exactly what you had written before you edited it. I guess I was just to quick on the draw.
As for the edited post. A Normal in relative to an abnormal society is what he said was a mental illness. In such environments a person is molded into what that abnormal society expects, and that millions go through life actually abnormal(mentally ill) to what these people would normally be if not for the abnormal society in which they grew up in

Ah i see, i thought he was saying society was our normal and we were abnormal for molding to it, which is true in a way. So he saying mentally ill people that develop away from society and return to society will not be able to assimilate?
My interpretation was more interesting though.