What did you hate in Salem you dont want in H&H ?

[Winnfield]

We don't take kindly to walls of text around these parts.

Understandable, guess I just had a lot to say, but hey thats why I added a TL;DR

[GenghisKhan44]

Shit, man, write a book, already. Or at least one of those pamphlets that pamphleteers pass out during elections, or when the next big crisis is about to hit the world.

So this is my first post but I felt I would throw in my two cents for a game I'm very much looking forward to playing;

I wasn't a huge fan of the NPC vendor in Salem. I felt like the need for a central trading hub wasn't exactly necessary, it could be the job of the players to provide large trading areas and perhaps even set up stalls with traders themselves to put their goods onto.

HnH is a lot like that, and these guys, from what I've read, agree with you. HnH used to have sort of a central hub, but that was very early on. Apples and Oranges demonstrates that trade is very decentralised here. And they've been through the ins and outs of how to make it work for years. Jorbtar know y'all like to make trading centers. If they change it, they know they'll get grief.

Maybe a group of bandits comes to the outskirts of the village to steal from merchants but is fended off by the villages players and defenses.

That would be the story of your villages, would it not, veteran players?

Not only this but generally players with ambitions to construct their own trading hubs want their village to be found and so are likely to build paths and highways connecting the world to far places and other villages.

Sometimes. Sometimes discretion, forum PMs, and alts are the better part of valour. Raiders like your brother are relatively common, so I hear.

I know having your village found and raided was a big problem in Haven but surely the biggest and strongest villages were rarely touched due to the fact that they were well known and raiders knew the immense risks of trying to attack towns as such as these.

Well, usually the biggest raiders have the biggest, most active villages. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

I think allowing villages like this to become safe trading places for newcomers and veterans would surely benefit both parties.

Safety? For noobs?
Well, that's more or less up to the owners of the villages. See "In Congress Assembled" and "Dwarves and Thieves" for more details.

There definitely felt like there was a lot of un-needed hostility towards new players in Salem most likely

No reason necessary. Right, guys?
If you come here often enough, you will begin to see most of us are assholes, and ought to be treated guilty until proven innocent.

The problem with that is hostility tends to create hostility I've found.

And that's part of what makes HnH so dangerous/fun for so many warmongers. Right guys?
Vengeance gives you, if not the most moral drives, certainly some of the more powerful drives to excel. It's why Ranging and 400 strength, sledgehammer-wielding wall-killers exist.

The fact the game lives up to the true sandbox name is going to be a huge selling point in the games popularity but the biggest challenge not only for the developers but the community too is going to be keeping the new players long enough to really experience the game to see just how great it really is.

[/quote]

My recommendation always and everywhere is to do what I do: read the wiki. Engross yourself in the wiki. Keep it on your desktop at all times while playing. And despite the fact that we're rather asinine, we're your only live lifeline.
You know all of this already. But if anyone does get frustrated with the game and you are fortunate enough to avail this poor, wretched, lost soul of salvation, evangelise the poor wretch with the Gospel of Research, the Epistles of the Wiki (ringofbrodgar.com, BTW), and the Apocalypse (in all senses!) of the Forums.

TL;DR: Try HnH out if you've the time, and you'll see it's more or less what you were looking for - except more violent and malevolent. And let frustrated noobs you come across know about the wiki and the value of reading it, and about the forums.

And THAT'S how you do a TL;DR!

P.S. : HnH is free. No ads. Dunno what HnH2 will be, but HnH is pro gratis, no ads, no income. This is just Jorbtar's way of having fun.

[sapphire]

What's bad in Salem?
Dry Boards-takes five days*
Lime(smelters)
Hills-why should I claimb those???
This gluttony system-so hard to make food all the time
Inspiration-wtf
Darknes-why so much animals???

[Flevalt]

Although I liked the complexity of Salem somewhat, I couldn't stand the way the game looked and felt.
It was an overall surreal and unpleasant experience.

I like about Haven & Hearth that it tries to be somewhat realistic.
The exploration in Haven feels meaningful because you can find curiosities, animals and signs of other players.
The fantasy elements like the Dryad or the Trolls feel completely unfitting.
In Salem you have dozens more of these unfitting elements that try to mix together with realistic aspects that then become pseudo-realistic in a way that does not feel authentic and right anymore.

The same goes for the characters. The graphic may have been 3D, but the Chibi-looks and overly colored, cute little character designs and their weird movements made the game feel like a comedy show, as if it tried to ridicule itself.
Haven is everything but eye-candy and yet it manages to create a serious atmosphere that feels threatening and yet inviting at the same time.



The only thing I liked about Salem was that it was trying to create a place where players could trade without having to mistrust each other. I'd welcome if they added something like an auction house in the new H&H which you access through a mail box or something. Since warping to hearthfires is not a thing in the new Haven anymore and since it will seemingly be hard to move long distances, global traders like ramones will most likely not be possible anymore in the new Haven.
Only local trade.
And since getting an alt account to your location will be hard, I don't see people risking their mains to trade locally with each other.
After all, why would I allow for someone to live near me just to trade? People in your vicinity who don't belong to your village will just be an unnecessary risk who take away your resources from your area.

[Kaios]

The fantasy elements like the Dryad or the Trolls feel completely unfitting.

Are you saying that about Haven or Salem? If it's in regard to Haven there is at least a good answer as to why those elements are included and it has less to do with fantasy and more that those things are related to "Slavic and Germanic myth and legend."

[loftar]

Just for a change, what things from Salem would you like to see in Haven? I imagine they exist if only in the purely technical department, like extended tooltips or town member lists.

[overtyped]

Just for a change, what things from Salem would you like to see in Haven? I imagine they exist if only in the purely technical department, like extended tooltips or town member lists.

There's some very important things in salem that haven cant do without. The a and the e in salem, because you can't spell haven without it.
That's about all.

[loftar]

Thank you for your cordial invitation to a meaningful discussion.

You're quite welcome, good Sir.

[LadyV]

I did enjoy a more extensive skill tree, hollow logs, the water looked nice.

[simimi]

Well, thats Bob Dole welcome style.
I heard you will modify the river system, I quite like it like its now : separate river systems, it promote the local life, the "know your neigbours", building trust.