enough is enough

[theTrav]

You have a point, vaults shouldn't be 100% theft proof. Which they are designed to be. But then again we need a better way of protecting our valuables then claims, so they have to be a temporary compensation. If not, what do you suggest Mr. Genius?

See my numerous other posts on the subject, particularly the one on whether vaults are cheating or not.
Short term I recommend upping the cost of thievery, long term I recommend locks, lock picking, guards, some form of guard evasion/overpowering etc, basically allowing a roughly 1:1.5 ratio of investment (for every two LP you invest on protecting something a thief should have to invest approximately 3LP to successfully nick it, more if he wants to get away without leaving clues).

However you completely fucking misread my post about the hearth fires. I'm not talking about hiding a hearth fire, I'm talking about a griefer coming in and walling your own in. If you still don't understand I will even draw a picture for you. -snipped-
Now, you can clearly see that the person can not get outside of his own hearth area via drying racks. This is the problem I was speaking of.

WOAH, dial back on the aggression there guy, you just need to lie down for a bit maybe. I know you're talking about wall in's, I read your post, I read it at least 3 times. Wall in's are not relevant to the ethics of vaults, nor are they relevant to the ethics of hidden hearth fires.
Vaults are to do with thievery, and hidden hearth fires are to do with thievery.

You made an assertion that vaults are not cheap. I'm asking you whether you believe hidden hearth fires are equally cheap.

I do NOT want to talk about wall ins with you, I think we can all agree that wall ins are nasty, and perhaps the cheapest current form of griefing in the game

[theTrav]

looks like your problems are homemade.

Impossible to tell without being there, also it's pretty easy to suggest what they could have done better with the full clarity of hindsight.

Perhaps you bottleneckers could resolve your issues through cool headed private dialog with the person behind the players doing the walling?

[niltrias]

looks like your problems are homemade.

Impossible to tell without being there, also it's pretty easy to suggest what they could have done better with the full clarity of hindsight.

Perhaps you bottleneckers could resolve your issues through cool headed private dialog with the person behind the players doing the walling?

Im not actually there at the moment, but cool-headed private dialog with a guy spamming alts and named theThief?
Sounds....unlikely.

[theThief]

looks like your problems are homemade.

Impossible to tell without being there, also it's pretty easy to suggest what they could have done better with the full clarity of hindsight.

Perhaps you bottleneckers could resolve your issues through cool headed private dialog with the person behind the players doing the walling?

Im not actually there at the moment, but cool-headed private dialog with a guy spamming alts and named theThief?
Sounds....unlikely.

No one ever noticed my first post on the forums, even though I posted in a thread made by the people I stole from.

[Raephire]

You have a point, vaults shouldn't be 100% theft proof. Which they are designed to be. But then again we need a better way of protecting our valuables then claims, so they have to be a temporary compensation. If not, what do you suggest Mr. Genius?

However you completely fucking misread my post about the hearth fires. I'm not talking about hiding a hearth fire, I'm talking about a griefer coming in and walling your own in. If you still don't understand I will even draw a picture for you.



Now, you can clearly see that the person can not get outside of his own hearth area via drying racks. This is the problem I was speaking of.

Vaults arent thief proof, a trained thief, a trained ASSASSIN, can wait until the player is active, then murder them in the field.

[Peter]

I'm tired of people complaining about people complaining about griefers!

Now I'm tired of people who are saying "I'm tired of people complaining about people complaining about griefers!"

[theTrav]

I'm tired of people complaining about people complaining about griefers!

Now I'm tired of people who are saying "I'm tired of people complaining about people complaining about griefers!"

... then have a nap?

[theTrav]

Vaults arent thief proof, a trained thief, a trained ASSASSIN, can wait until the player is active, then murder them in the field.

You're saying they're not assassin proof, that's different to thief proof, and certainly takes a lot more investment on the part of the assassin than most current thieves.

Secondly, I believe an assassin currently has not way of concealing his identity, as the mark can get his name as soon as combat is initiated

[Adam-]

Trav, you've once again got a point.

Are hidden hearths cheap? Of course they are cheap.

However again I have to say that with the current system that they are necessary. Everything is just about half implemented and self defense and summoning really need some changes before we can stop hiding our hearths. Same thing with vaults, it is still way too easy to steal from someone that doesn't have a vault at the moment.

Can we resolve this peacefully.. Um.. well here is my actual saying and responses with the person (note that I have to type them out because you can't see the writing via screen shots; at least not anything good.)

theft-

"Hello, why are you walling in important places in bottleneck?"
No response
"At least reply to me, I'm only trying to make sure you won't get killed because you appear to be new." (2 minute interval)
No response
"Hello?" (5 minute interval)
No response
"I know your here."(6 minute interval)
Player is not logged in. (Dead)

Stelth

"Hello? Why are you doing this?"
No response
"Come out now from hiding and discuss, we may let you live." (40 second interval)
No response
"Hello?" (3 minute interval)
No response
"H E L L O?" (10 minute interval - by this point we were just looking to kill him)
No response
"Well I guess your just retarded." (1 minute interval)
Player is not logged in. (Logged off)

AS you can see, the person was obviously there and was actively walling. They did not respond to any of my peaceful offers nor did they my threats.

Obviously this person is damaged mentally and does not want to negotiate.

[Errol]

I am sick and tired of this shit. People complaining every day about this problem is simply enough. Yes, the average griefer is an idiot. And there's a line between griefer (does things to make others suffer) and thief (does things for his own benefit without caring for others). And every single griefer you see needs to be incinerated. That's a fact.

However, you guys heat up the debate way past the acceptable limit. What we're having here is close to a flame war, without the insults. What if you all just relax? The devteam will 100% fix the drying rack exploit next update and, hopefully, the root of all this shitstorm, namely alt abuse, at some point in the near future. One alt createable/one reincarnation per day, and one account per computer would be nice and all. And by causing all the harm our average griefer is delaying the game development by a significant measure of time. So, what#s the solution? Well, you could quarantine the game now. Lock it down for a week or two and implement some more features, perhaps a mapwipe, advance the game by some more cool features. Then open it up and fix the inevitable exploits and bugs.

You don't want that? I'd propose we get our resident griefers bored. If we don't react they will go away. It's as simple as that. Even if every single hearthfire gets fenced in? Yes. Vandalism will come, and we shall simply clean up the aftermath and the worst consequences. As long as we react in this manner they will continue to make our lifes harder.

Soo... Who#s for boycotting the game the next, I dunno, four days?