World's End

[Yolan]

Regarding setting up trade relations with other towns/stalls with other towns, there are obvious security issues. Probably what is going to happen once we are more firmly established is that we will set up a dedicated trade area (walled of course), that can ported into via signposts. We might allow stalls to be set up there that sell foreign goods for some reasonable tax on the proceeds. But basically, yes, we are thinking about this.

Something else that needs clearing up...

Guys, World's End is not 'capitalist.' Hence Avu's comments about me loving the American way or something, and how real world systems won't work when implemented into a game, miss the point entirely.

If anybody thinks World's End is capitalist, I have only this to ask. Where are the 'capitalists', i.e. the bourgeois, and where is the capital? I.E. the fortunes they own to control the means of production (i.e. factories) that the working class slave away in? They do not exist.

I think people are getting confused here in setting up some kind of 'capitalist' 'communist' dichotomy, whereby places that hold all goods in kind are 'communist' and those that don't are 'capitalist'. Now, normally I wouldn't even bother giving a little lecture about this. It's not my job to educate you guys about the Marxist critique of history (well, it is sometimes my job, but thats irl... . However, when people turn around and say "what you are doing won't work because its just a game and capitalism.... blah blah blah". Gah.

What we are doing is having personal property, and people working for their own benefit. This is a basic state of affairs in any country, and pretty much any economic system (capitalist or communist), since people first gave up living a basic, communal style life while ecking out the bare necessities of existence.

In H&H players are not struggling to survive, forced the band together to fight off wild beasts and scrounge around for berries or what have you. We have surplus food/time to what is necessary to get by. A lot of it. Hence we are not only engaged in 'labor', but 'work', that which produces things that last. I.E. towns, roads, tools, farms, etc. Why is it somehow a necessity to share all these things? It think people get too stuck in this mindset of playing. It certainly has its benefits, but if we are to really explore the possibilities of emergent complexity that lie within this game, to see anything more than many small groups scattered over a massive area, then we need to be prepared to experiment with other ways of organising things. That's all I'm interested in. Not in somehow being 'capitalist' because I 'believe in apple pie and the American way'. I happen to be an Australian and am actually a fan of greater state control of the economy (when paired with actual, real education of the community in thinking, and a press that doesn't simply dumb us down into the accepting the narratives presented by various elites). None of that, however, has anything to do with this, a computer game.

/rant

[serpentyngallery]

What is your policy regarding foreigners setting up a small vending stall and selling some random semi hq stuff like pumpkin pies and slings while buying bricks and some random foragebles?

Personally I don't think there would be any problem, though the getting TO World's End, and the fact that you would only be selling to the Inhabitants at that time, would be the only problem. Also not sure if Stalls built on a village claim can be used by those that are not part of village works, never tried before...

Works fine, ownership of the stall goes to either the person who builds it, or the first person to put something in it, that I forget. The only way to nix that is to cover it with a personal claim that they don't have access to, but even then your only preventing them from getting to their vendors stand.

Edit: And taxing sales? that's like trying to tax day labor IRL, would be much more stable and profitable for you to "rent" slots in your vendors area... but then it seems to become more about revenue than about providing a service to your community...

[Grog]

ownership goes to the person who uts the first thing in. so at least put a stone in when you finished building it

[kralmir]

so what happens when someone buys everything in it? or do the coins now in it count aswel?

[Nanothnir]

Guys, World's End is not 'capitalist.'

Yeah my bad, I always use that word wrong. I will stop now...

[serpentyngallery]

Ownership still stays with the builder, I have yet to see a stall though that has sold out, and all coins have been collected from.. there's a few derelict booths at the market I vend in... at least they seem that way, might be something to try out in the near future with some of the folks in it, just as an experiment.

[Grog]

can confirm. once a single piece of stuff is put in, the ownership of the stall wont change anymore, even if sold out

[DarkConvict]

I was there at new brogar but RL commitments (3rd year of uni) had to drag me away.

I agree 20x20 is just to small.

But what i found to be a major issue not really discussed here is everyone having separate plots, each 20x20 plot got a palisade, that used to say the least alot of wood to make. Back when i was there we had to travel by boat to get wood and that was only a 3-4 weeks after starting.

The above idea of quadrants/sectors/area is a good one purely to reduce the deforestation. Keep areas locked together or less minor roads so plots join together. For personal plots keep them them like 25x25, 30x30, or may have some long ones of 20x40.

You need an open area of farm land, or atleast those that farm to have bigger plots.

[Grog]

or a second. it isnt that hard to train a yeo-alt who can keep a whole 25*25 fieldarea. maybe even outside the mainwalls

this second claim could also be shared by 3 farmers...

[kralmir]

whats this about 20x20? the plots are 25x25 and ive had no complaints so far.