Philosophy, emotional investment and Questions that arise

[Jackard]

Not only that - how much sense does it make to invest so heavily in a game still under development that you become heartbroken when you die?

Everyone here is going to lose everything, the only thing you'll have left over are stories.

Is it heartbroken? Or is it bored with doing the same old thing all over again, to create another character to be killed, more resources to be stolen, etc. etc.? Yes, games are inherently profitless, and some would thus consider them pointless - but assuming you are going to play games at all, who wants a game that's basically futile? Maybe those who have no "achiever" in their gamer makeup, I suppose. But for me this game's great potential involves building, creating settlements and objects. If whatever one builds is flushed regularly - randomly or otherwise - then there's no longer any game, just a bunch of people insulting each other on forums, or sometimes pontificating about what they believe the game should be like.

I suppose I can compare this with bridge, which I played tonight instead of bothering to check whether the server was up. I came away from a night at the bridge club with my bridge playing skills improved, having had an enjoyable evening, and having gained 0.58 master points. I don't get to keep anything I developed in any particular hand - but that's OK, because that's not the point. In this game, there's precious little to learn, and some of the mechanics are best described as tedious. Building things is where the potential emotional gain lies - homesteads, objects, and character skills/stats. Except it's a non-consensual pvp permadeath game, so that potential is unrealized. Net result - it's a game of trying to grind one's character to decent levels before it gets killed - or build a settlement to a useful and convenient level before it gets trashes, or stolen, or lost to a map reset.

Yes, it's an alpha, so a certain amount of this is to be expected - and tolerable. But most of those pontificating seem to be glorying in it. Of course precious few of them appear to have been killed and/or seriously looted yet - and some of the ones that did whined loud and long when it happened. Most of those I've seen killed who didn't whine about it simply never appeared in forums or game again. Too bad the devs don't mind a revolving door, provided there are always new players to replace the old ones.

If a game is no longer entertaining for you, why would you play it?

Hopefully not for a false sense of accomplishment. You've achieved nothing significant by playing a game. It is a pastime, a diversion. Don't delude yourself into believing you are doing anything other than killing time.

[lazerdix]

<rant>

Perhaps you should try playing Harvest Moon Online? I'm sorry, but... This is a game with nonconsensual PvP, and up until now, apparently everyone has been playing with the mindset of "this is harvest moon yay farming", while I've approached everything with the perspective of "this is like nethack, but with more farming".

[sami1337]

I, personally, have been killed, lost a 50k LP character (I know probably not that much compared to a few others, but whatev) And now I have a much better character, in half the time! Its not that hard, and if you get emotionally involved in a video game, then well, you really should take a break. Its not meant to be serious after all!

Well if you'd ask me i'd say it's fine to be emotionally attached to a game. Even a movie is worth nothing if it does nothing to you emotionally.

It's up to the person to deal with the emotions. It's nothing you can decide for a person.

Anyhow, it's been said he was gunned down. But i don't understand how that works..He had plate right?
I've been called paranoid until i was put into the position of being able to call someone naive and have her admit it. I always have a shield on with the shield skill. If i go outside the walls i take a sword with me and put on a helmet.80% or so of the people won't be able to hit me with a shield.

[kobnach]

Well if you'd ask me i'd say it's fine to be emotionally attached to a game. Even a movie is worth nothing if it does nothing to you emotionally.

Precisely.

[End]

I am sad to see cor's character has died, he has been helping me get on my feet as I have just started out. I hope he comes back in one form or another.

[zdazzle]

Of course you can have emotions about a game/movie but to be emotionally ATTACHED isn't. If it affects your RL ability to interact/live with others, then there's the problems. Of course you can have emotions, it's impossible not to!

[Colbear]

I, personally, have been killed, lost a 50k LP character (I know probably not that much compared to a few others, but whatev) And now I have a much better character, in half the time! Its not that hard, and if you get emotionally involved in a video game, then well, you really should take a break. Its not meant to be serious after all!

Anyhow, it's been said he was gunned down. But i don't understand how that works..He had plate right?
I've been called paranoid until i was put into the position of being able to call someone naive and have her admit it. I always have a shield on with the shield skill. If i go outside the walls i take a sword with me and put on a helmet.80% or so of the people won't be able to hit me with a shield.

I think it's the other 20% that you've got to watch out for.

[RiverPhoenix]

I might as well delurk here... I left because I was a builder and what I helped build was trashed, completely. It awoke me to the fact that for all I can spend weeks playing all it takes is a single night and it's gone... no rhyme or reason for it, it's just gone.

What is the point of building to see it all knocked down? What is the point of spending all the time you can spare doing something that is taken away (and here's the bit that bites - for me at least) in only the briefest moment of that time by someone who doesn't give the smallest iota of a damn about what they have done. I mean I can see stealing one or two precious items makes sense (it does in the real world) and that is upsetting but not the end of the world (I should know it's happened to me - in my home no-less) but completely trashing and or emptying an entire village/town??? That is what armies do, your own armies when they want to slow down an invading force and don't have time to take it with them... even invading armies don't raze cities if they intend to stay or repeat raid (hence the reason the USA's atom bombing of Japanese cities being quite so grossly appalling - if you don't agree you're part of the problem, not the solution).

If the killers drive the builders away (which seems to be the case - how many towns, villages and homesteads have been abandoned on the new map? How many are even remembered but for their size? How many people are desperately seeking some meaning to death by going to the edges of the world?) what will be left? A wasteland... I have argued this before and I will again - the builders in the real world have advantages over the destroyers, without that there is no world... so it's not balanced you cry... well if you want everyone to have anything to do other than kill then that's what you need... at least with human players... if you don't like it then go cry to the god of your choice or blame evolution because that is the way it works.

As for emotional investment... maybe that's what makes people enjoy the game... but I guess fly-by-nights who don't expect to play a game for more than three months would understand that... some of us are in games for the long haul (years or decades), some not - but if we're in a game for that long haul we want to have the vaguest protection from the fly-by-nights who care not a jot for the game or it's future (just where they are going to get their next hit from).

Maybe see you at map reset... but if the current vain continues I don't think I can be bothered... there are games that care more about their players sticking it for the long haul (and anyone in business knows it is the people who invest the most who give the most back).

River

[theTrav]

What is the point of building to see it all knocked down? What is the point of spending all the time you can spare doing something that is taken away (and here's the bit that bites - for me at least) in only the briefest moment of that time by someone who doesn't give the smallest iota of a damn about what they have done.

It's sand castles on the beach dude, you build it to see how nice you can make it look before the tide comes and washes it away. Then you start again another day seeing if you can better your previous efforts.
Are you really after building? Or are you after collection?

[theTrav]

i don't understand how that works..He had plate right? ...snip... I always have a shield on with the shield skill. If i go outside the walls i take a sword with me and put on a helmet.80% or so of the people won't be able to hit me with a shield.

Ok, this is something I've posted on many times but people (JTG especially) shouted me down on it.
1 - Shields don't appear to help against arrows
2 - Full armor will not cancel out ALL arrow damage, at least 1-5 damage will usually get through
3 - Ten people doing 1-5 damage each per volley is 10-50 damage per volley, that adds up.
4 - You can only chase one of the 10 people at at time and they run as fast as you do.


A large number of archers WILL BEAT YOU. Full stop. Your best bet when encountering such a party is to run for backup