Opinions about the Felix Baumgartner jump

[burgingham]

Well, that last sentence is something I think is interesting. I would just not call it adventurism in this case. It is a very well calculated advertising stunt in which in individual was utilized.

I am aware that this specific form of adventurism needs funding, but the adventurer - the wannabe free spirit - should ask him- or herself then wether a less extreme method that grants more freedom wouldn't be the better choice.

Edit: One could also argue that adventurism has attributes of desperation in a fully discovered and rationally explained environment. Adorno called it the disenchantment of the world. So Baumgartners attempt is to overcome that, but yes it is desperation and will not get him to where he wanted to go. (This is a little of a wild philosophical speculation ^^)

[dagrimreefah]

@Dagrimreefah:

You sir are an idiot for calling me naive and then releasing such a pile of bullshit there. I study these things for almost 7 years now, I urge you to get in contact with some political theory please before blabbering your nonsense again. In particular you should look up the word "normative" in the political dictionary. That categorizes the kind of statement I made.

Yes, nice argument. Call me names, then generally say "I studied this stuff for 7 years, and what you said is stupid!" Very engaging debate. /sarc

Maybe if you try pulling your head out of your ass, you can actually formulate a decent argument there instead of just baseless ad hominem attacks. Oh and try controlling your emotions instead of ranting like an idealistic little college girl.

You just put together a bunch of words you do not even know the meaning of. You cannot cram taxpayer, fiat money, stealing etc. pp. into one sentence without offering any explanations.

Prove that I don't know the meaning of these terms? You can't. More ad hominem. I am actually very familiar with these terms. Yes you can "cram" all of these terms into one sentence. Its not my fault you're too ignorant to know the meaning of these terms, then project that shortcoming onto me.

My position has not the slightest resemblance to communism.

Yes it does, sorry.

I'm also sorry that you thought my comment was supposed to be an "America vs. you guys" comment. Shows how inept at reading comprehension you are.

I can only laugh at your statement the government is a group of people btw. You are the one being naive here. Please, really get in contact with some theory. In connection to the last statement I would recommend social contract theories like Rousseau, Locke and Decartes.Then you would realize that you yourself legitimize that "evil" government, you as a person give them their power and nothing of what they are doing is un-legitimized. You allowed them to do what they are doing. Also, you might learn that governments are an extension of society as a whole and not a group of people in any sense of the word.

I laugh at how willingly you believe that bullshit that has been spoonfed to you as well. Have you ever heard of Mises or Rothbard? Please read some of their works. Sounds like YOU are the one that needs some refreshment in "theory".

Again more "Let me mockingly just laugh and reference some shit I just Googled to seem like my point is valid" You have your theory, I have mine.

Some John Rawls might not hurt you either to get some common sense about theories of justice into that emtpy balloon of yours you call a head.

I am not interested in your philosophical bullshit. Maybe if you'd stop filling your head with this garbage, you'd be able to actually critically think for yourself. Then again, you might cower at the thought that those "philosophical theories" aren't there to do your thinking for you.

How anybody can be so naive as to trust the intentions of a capitalistic corporation these days is beyond me and a whole other topic.

How anyone could trust in a bunch of politicians to do a better job at managing resources makes me worry about humanity. So the words "private property" mean nothing to you?

You must have been asleep the last 5 years when it should have become even clear to the last redneck that these things are not working in any way libertarians such as yourself always preached they would.

Nice, use a racial slur to get your point across. You sound like a fucking CNN talking head from 2006 man, seriously. Nice bullshit labels you're throwing out there like "libertarian" too. Seriously, this is not a debate. You are just regurgitating a bunch of shit you heard on TV dude.

Man, at least Jorb has some theoretical background on that shit, but that nonsense you spew is disgusting to read. When such uninformed drivel is the position of the majority I am not surprised anymore why so many countries are going downhill.

Yeah, suck Jorb's dick some more hahaha.
Reading your putrid, clueless, childishly written, ignorant vomit, I am not surprised so many countrys' economies are going down the drain. Because of collectivist minded cretins like you who buy into everything their professors tell them. I reiterate:
"Seriously, this is not a debate. You are just regurgitating a bunch of shit you heard on TV dude."
Really, instead of talking like you are well learned and well read on the subject, turn the TV off and actually get interested in it. Agreeing with your professors and the TV to be "cool" and "part of the status quo" isn't going to get you to enlightenment.

You have to actually think for yourself, moron.

[burgingham]

Mises or Rothbard

Meep, you have been disqualified from the argument. Please find your way out.

Seriously, you have never even read Rousseau, Kant or anyone I named and yet you dare to call some of the greatest philosophers that have ever lived names? On what base? If you have such good arguments then I ask of you to please write me an essay on why these theories are bad or (paranoia much?) are some form of spoonfeeding.

The two guys you mention are not being taken seriously by any social or political scientist I have ever met. They are considered to be crazy at best, dangerous at worst. Conspiracy theories do not classify as science. Rousseau and the others do, because you can retrack their entire arguments through sdimple logic. There are logic courses being taught at most universities btw. I can only recommend it. It is basically math for words and it easily shows you why people like Rothbard are frauds.

Well, you say that philosophy is garbage. So what you are saying is: Finding out the truth is garbage. Because that is what philosophy is ultimately all about. I cannot help you if you choose to believe lies. That is like having a religious discussion then. If you want to come back and listen to rational, logical arguments then be my guest.

P.S. I do not own a TV anymore for 7 years now. I get all my informations from sound scientific theory. I also read the theories I do not agreee with to widen my theoretical horizon or to let them convinve me they might be better. I am also not an American. I am European. You know those guys with the good educational systems and all. Know who pays for that education? The government does.

[brohammed]

I don't think science was advanced by jumping from a balloon carriage. The jump does suppose the use of emergency escape capsules from low Earth space, but little more than that. ISS's lowest point in orbit is 199 miles @ 15,000 mph while Baumgartner jumped from a geo-stationary balloon at a height of 24 miles.

It's more about escape during launch or re-entry. See, the columbia and challenger disasters.

[burgingham]

Well, I actually have some texts of Rothbard here and looked a bit through them now. He seems to refer to Locke from time to time and take his theories as a base for his own. So I guess he has been spoonfed as well? Oo

I will take back my somewhat harsh assessment of him. Nontheless his societal models have been by and large been proven wrong by sociological field experiments over the past decades. His complete autonomy models without even any form of justice system ultimately always fail and descent into the bad form of anarchy. The violent chaotical one.

To be paranoid about some of the great independent philosophers and at the same time believing in Mises without any form of critical thinking I find to be very dangerous though. I only have a Marcuse text here and not the original but he cites Mises with (I am translating): "The facist regimes are full of the best intentions and their rise has saved Europe [...]"

[dagrimreefah]

Well, you say that philosophy is garbage.

As an academic field of knowledge, yes.

So what you are saying is: Finding out the truth is garbage.

I never said that. You are worse than the slimiest jailhouse lawyer or the tackiest used-car salesman i swear haha.

Because that is what philosophy is ultimately all about. I cannot help you if you choose to believe lies.

Bro, I study economics. You study philosophy. Fair enough. But don't tell me just because I have a more les a faire, free market oriented belief in economics and you happen to have the polar opposite, you're right and the world is going to hell in a handbasket because of people like me, just because you study philosophy. That's really just crummy, and it doesn't help your credibility.

That is like having a religious discussion then. If you want to come back and listen to rational, logical arguments then be my guest.

My point is I find there is no more of a moral society than a free market society. Risk and profit motive are very powerful regulatory mechanisms. When economic instability does happen, it is usually very shallow and swift because businesses are allowed to fail and NATURAL (not government forced) capital reallocation occurs and in a manner that is more risk-conscious to investors, therefore resources are put to use more carefully and effectively. How can you argue with that? I mean, think about it if YOU were an investor: would you want all of your money going to a failing venture?

[burgingham]

1. I am not studying philosophy.

2. It is the field of science since all others sicences derive from it.

3. You did say you do not want truth when you denied philosophy. You need to look up what science means otherwise. It is literally: The search for truth.

4. Your market model has been recently proven wrong. Checked during the last years what is going on outside? Worldwide financial crisis and all. Caused by the capitalist corporations being let loose on the world and wreaking havoc. And what does America do? Let's them start all over again...

5. Please see my other comment. I am actually listing parts of those theories you love so much. I expect some statements.

[Tonopah]

Okay, I'll bite.

Government advertises it's own product line via radio, tv and print media every minute of everyday across the US. Ad Council, State of California and the federal government employ advertisement pitch-vehicles for all sorts of social programs. Public Service Announcements (PSA) are expensive productions made by commercial professionals. How do these government advertisements differ from Redbulll or Ford or Ikea or Apple selling their manufactured products?

Is Baumgartner a naive tool? Seems an unfair characterization.

>>>
brohammed
The challenger's o-rings failed and the bloody fuel tank exploded.
Columbia lost heat tiles and freakin' disintegrated during reentry @ 10,000 MPH.

Baumgartner jumped from a stationary platform under perfectly controlled conditions. I think what Baumgartner did was pretty cool but it ain't rocket science.

[brohammed]

Okay, I'll bite.

Government advertises it's own product line via radio, tv and print media every minute of everyday across the US. Ad Council, State of California and the federal government employ advertisement pitch-vehicles for all sorts of social programs. Public Service Announcements (PSA) are expensive productions made by commercial professionals. How do these government advertisements differ from Redbulll or Ford or Ikea or Apple selling their manufactured products?

Is Baumgartner a naive tool? Seems an unfair characterization.

He's not saying there's something inherently wrong with advertising. Just that this kind of research is too important to be left to the whims of a drinks company.

Plus, PSAs advertise, usually not to make a profit, but to inform of gov't services or advise against dangerous behaviour. An apple advert or a red bull advert is purely "buy this".

>>>
brohammed
The challenger's o-rings failed and the bloody fuel tank exploded.
Columbia lost heat tiles and freakin' disintegrated during reentry @ 10,000 MPH.

Baumgartner jumped from a stationary platform under perfectly controlled conditions. I think what Baumgartner did was pretty cool but it ain't rocket science.

Well, obviously. But there might be a less catastrophic failure in the future, leaving the astronauts still able to bail out at high, high altitudes.

The crew compartment and many other vehicle fragments were eventually recovered from the ocean floor after a lengthy search and recovery operation. Although the exact timing of the death of the crew is unknown, several crew members are known to have survived the initial breakup of the spacecraft. However, the shuttle had no escape system and the impact of the crew compartment with the ocean surface was too violent to be survivable.

It is possible that some of the astronauts could have survived the challenger disaster with the knowledge that could be gained from experiments like this jump.

[burgingham]

Okay, I'll bite.

Government advertises it's own product line via radio, tv and print media every minute of everyday across the US. Ad Council, State of California and the federal government employ advertisement pitch-vehicles for all sorts of social programs. Public Service Announcements (PSA) are expensive productions made by commercial professionals. How do these government advertisements differ from Redbulll or Ford or Ikea or Apple selling their manufactured products?

I would not disagree with that. I said my initial statement was of a normative nature. Means it describes a morally desirable state. What we actually have is far from that.

The governments are mainly corrupted by the influence of todays turbo-capitalism on them though.