Parents murder kid (discussion on death penalty)

[overtyped]

On a side note

With only 5% of the worlds population, the us has 25% of the worlds prison population. This is what happens when you privatize prisons. You make incarcerating people profitable.

No, don't blame America's rediculously high prison rate on "that evil capitalism". Its so easy to blame "capitalism" for everything. So easy to sit on a soap box and condemn everyone for wanting to earn profits (yet i'm willing to wager that if you were selling something, you'd get mad at me pretty fuckin' quickly if I ask to have it for free...)

You're just ignoring the true evil here, the government and their War on Drugs. What also contributes to such a high prison rate?: government SUBSIDIZING prison corporations. Profit is not the culprit. We need profits and losses to tell us whether our allocation of resources are sound. Blaming profitability and privatization for an overpopulation in prison is like blaming the fucking bars that hold them there. its government subsidies that incentivize the rounding up of millions of Americans into cages, not profits, since the profits aren't even real. Its mainly state kickbacks and other GOVERNMENT (not private) subsidies that fuel the thirst for these "Wackenhuts" to keep their prisons full. And what is the catalyst? The WAR ON DRUGS. Anyway, back to the shadows...

Do you really want to know how much is spent on lobbying from prison corporations to keep the war on drugs going? and guess what, its all perfectly legal :.)
They are also lobbying to expand profits by passing a law putting illegal immigrants behind bars. That's legal too.
Just type in a google search " private prisons lobbying " and research for your self. They aren't hiding what they are doing, because like I said it's all 100% legal!
If you don't understand what lobbying is, they are basically legal bribes. Politicians need money to run a campaign, the one with more money wins, because money=speech.

[Potjeh]

Another nice thing about the prison industry is how they get prisoners to work for like like a quarter an hour, so they can undercut normal businesses and thus drive up poverty, which in turn leads to more people going to prison.

[overtyped]

Another nice thing about the prison industry is how they get prisoners to work for like like a quarter an hour, so they can undercut normal businesses and thus drive up poverty, which in turn leads to more people going to prison.

It's a freak show. I see why George Carlin gave up caring.

[MagicManICT]

On a side note
No, don't blame America's rediculously high prison rate on "that evil capitalism". Its so easy to blame "capitalism" for everything. So easy to sit on a soap box and condemn everyone for wanting to earn profits (yet i'm willing to wager that if you were selling something, you'd get mad at me pretty fuckin' quickly if I ask to have it for free...)

Nobody is going to blame a company that ends up making a bit extra through smarter work and management from privatized human services work. The question lies in where that profit comes from. Is it from simply saving a few dollars here and there without cutting services, or is it from exploiting the situation? The latter is the issue with many private prisons.

[dagrimreefah]

stuff

Yes, lobbying is bad. That's what happens when you have a huge powerful government capable of handing out favors to large corporations: well, large corporations start asking for favors, of course. (another argument in favor of shrinking the government and stripping its powers). But instead of blaming private enterprise, why not look at the government? I mean, at least private enterprise uses and manages resources efficiently; the government has NO good qualities. If I had to pick and choose one, it would be private enterprise. Government ran prisons are utter money-hemmorhaging shitholes...

Nobody is going to blame a company that ends up making a bit extra through smarter work and management from privatized human services work. The question lies in where that profit comes from. Is it from simply saving a few dollars here and there without cutting services, or is it from exploiting the situation? The latter is the issue with many private prisons.

Well, what moral difference would it make if it was a private entity "exploiting the situation" or the government? Its still a moral dilemma either way. But we can argue morals all day, since they are subjective. My main point is that the massive amount of people in prison is NOT because of prison privatization. Its because of government, namely the War On Drugs.

[Arcanist]

Once you make having people in prison profitable, the prisons want more 'customers'.
This should not be the object of prisons, prisons should be about rehabilitating people who have made a mistake, and about trying to fix the problems that got them there, so that they don't return.
Private prisons would not want to rehabilitate people.

This is simply why prisons should not be in private hands

I mean, at least private enterprise uses and manages resources efficiently; the government has NO good qualities. If I had to pick and choose one, it would be private enterprise. Government ran prisons are utter money-hemmorhaging shitholes...

Governments don't run businesses to make money, they run these for the good of the public.

In New Zealand, our government sold the railways to private hands, the private hands then tried to run this business as efficiently as possible, by raising prices for shipping, and spending less on track maintenance. Eventually the government was forced to buy the business back at extortionate prices so that the people of NZ would still have rail.

Busses, Trains, Prisons, Power Plants, Water Treatment and Distribution, Police, Emergency services are necessary amenities for any developed country to function. All of these should be run at a loss financially, so that everyone can prosper.

Its because of government, namely the War On Drugs.

A war which is being funded by prisons, which in turn gets them more customers.

Well, what moral difference would it make if it was a private entity "exploiting the situation" or the government?

Because the government would want a huge amount of it's population incarcerated...

What also contributes to such a high prison rate?: government SUBSIDIZING prison corporations. Profit is not the culprit. We need profits and losses to tell us whether our allocation of resources are sound. Blaming profitability and privatization for an overpopulation in prison is like blaming the fucking bars that hold them there. its government subsidies that incentivize the rounding up of millions of Americans into cages, not profits, since the profits aren't even real. Its mainly state kickbacks and other GOVERNMENT (not private) subsidies that fuel the thirst for these "Wackenhuts" to keep their prisons full. And what is the catalyst? The WAR ON DRUGS. Anyway, back to the shadows...

So, imagine that government didn't subsidize prisoners, the prison would have to make the full amount that it costs to keep an inmate

That comes to around $30,600 per inmate.

A minimum wage worker, which is likely who prisoners doing work are likely replacing, makes $15,080 per year. So to break even, the prisons would have to make every prisoner work an 80 hour week for no pay, if they were getting minimum wage for the prisoner's efforts.
Now who would employ a prisoner, over a free man at the same wage?
It just wouldn't be possible to do, let alone make a profit.

The prisons would have to cut the costs of incarceration, less food for prisoners, less guards, less prison maintenance, however they cut costs it wouldn't be a good thing for the humanity of the prisoners, or for the safety of the public.

[Flame]

maybe as it is now, the prison system is a big shit. And so, everything is shitty.

But yeah, i think that prisoners should do something, work, use theyr energy. They pay what they cost or a part of it, and also they have something to do.
Stay all the day in a cell is just a way to kill theyr brain. No, definitly, no.

Maybe this system is able to turn bad every good idea, so i'm not defending the Job in the prison. Just saying that, in another prison system rebuild from scratch, i whould probably put this idea in.

[Potjeh]

Work can be a great rehabilitation tool, but not when it's the kind of work that's sparse on the outside.

Anyway, I think the USA has become way too dependent on private prisons to quit them cold turkey. But what could help the situation a great deal would be basing the size of the government handouts on actual effectiveness rather than just raw numbers of prisoners. Ie, each prison should have an average recidivism rate calculated for the prisoners that served their time in it, and have the payouts based on that. So shitty prisons that just train people to stay criminals would eventually go out of business.

[dagrimreefah]

nonsense

I can't even bring it upon myself to spend my time on your beliefs there except to say

Governments don't run businesses to make money, they run these for the good of the public.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[overtyped]

nonsense

I can't even bring it upon myself to spend my time on your beliefs there except to say

Governments don't run businesses to make money, they run these for the good of the public.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I wouldn't call his points beliefs. You don't seem to understand private corperations at all, and think they are the most wonderful thing in the world. You are certainly right, a private corperation is way more efficient than the government. The problem with that is they will always use the cheapest and easiest methods. For example chromated copper arsenate playground sets. Yes thats correct, arsenic treated wood playground sets. A corperation will sell poisonous playground sets for your children to use because it's a little cheaper and easier to produce.
If private enterprises were not monitored for this kind of thing, if it was cheaper they would literally sell you poisonous cereal for your kids to eat, poisonous beds for you to sleep in, and radioactive fruits for you to eat, without it ever being investigated. Now do you wonder who puts a stop to these practices like arsenic playground sets? yes it was the "evil" government.
The government has no incentive to destroy it's own population, but for a private business that kind of practice is very much lucrative, like with private prisons lobbying for more "customers"