Goodbye, and good riddance

[burgingham]

Thanks for the post Vetarnian. Griefing continues to be a major game killer.

Burgingham, please stop protecting griefers. The newbie character killed by your "villager" should have been avenged. Your protection robbed me of my vicarious shadenfreude.

Are you not even listening at all? Where the fuck did I protect griefers? Jeez I am not a native speaker, but I would have guessed people understood my posts...

[Vetarnian]

Response to Jackard:

I'm just finishing responding to some of the posts I see here, then you'll be able to snark away without my interrupting.

Response to Jorb:

Scarcity of metal isn't a problem if a proper trading mechanism were in place to allow for trade. I've never been a fan of trades conducted via forums or through my virtual brother-in-law's second cousin, and I definitely shouldn't be forced to get on IRC to conduct trades.

However, I never really liked the idea of a universal trading house whose listings are accessible from anywhere on the map (like WoW's). I would much prefer local markets to which you would have to go to buy their products, which could add an element of regional play into the game (instead of Brodgarizing anything). Perhaps villages could construct market-houses where items could be traded. But at this stage, it's not even an option.

You already noticed the player base is quite small and then you are making such proposals? Now this is just stupid.

I'm saying it's an essential thing regardless of the player size, because one assumes the purpose of this game is to grow.

I've always considered griefing and PvP to be two different things, like ganking and PvP, or PvP and RvR. It just sounds like an excuse for "it's war, anything goes". The thing is that players who don't want to be forced into a war should have a way of remaining out of it. That's not me the carebear speaking; I'd gladly have considered getting involved in the RvR and the alliance game at a later stage (though maybe not some of the people in our group; we go about things quite democratically). But we're not even on our feet, we pose no threat to anyone, we're not even in anyone's way or sitting on an important resource (it's all Q10 around here), we just farm our fields and develop our settlement, but the griefers came anyway. "Nipping them in the bud" hardly makes for long-term sustainability, as far as a game is concerned.

You admit them to being two different things and yet get them confused two sentences later? Make up your mind boy.

They are two different things, but that's not saying that there isn't a grey area between them where it isn't clear whether an action belongs to one side or the other. RvR is an all-too-convenient excuse for griefing any newbie out of the game under the pretext that they could pose a threat to you later on; and many a ganker has hidden under the cloak of PvP to justify his actions, while real PvP implies the other guy has a fighting chance.

[Chakravanti]

You already noticed the player base is quite small and then you are making such proposals? Now this is just stupid.

I have to disagree. I've long considered the idea of a 'market village'. I proposed 'emabssy' features in pojeh's village management wishlist thread that would allow several different villages to cooperatively form a village and set up their own section for merchandising.

[Russaria]

What we need are people that don't simply murder others when raiding. If a town fights back and there's no treaty, destroy some of their shit. Its simple.

Most criminal communities in this game have very powerful players so instead of raiding other cities it would be better to define a large and reasonable border.. People who live within the large border would be warned a few real days to either move or pay tribute. If they dont, you raid them.

The current problem is there is no order, or organization. It all seems random and for the lulz, behavior like that in the game should be punished, not rewarded. Serious quick fixes should be set up as a temporary fix for this shit.

The problem in failed sandboxes is the slow drift towards uniformity, usually led by high level griefer/pvp types. The success of a sandbox is to ensure that a wide range of play types is both viable, alowwed and encouraged. Those such as Burg who describe their love of pvpish raiding mayhem...ect,ect. more power to ya. The point is, I find NOTHING in their decription (and others of that type) that seems fun to me, I totally am the opposite. They do not care about other opinions of their playtype (as it should be) just as I care "not at all" of their opinons about care-bear peacenik style of gameplay (again as it should be).

The problem arises when 1 type or the other decides by whatever means to FORCE players to play with them. As is illustrated on many threads, there are plenty of both types of players in this game, so the problem comes to light when a pvper or griefer decides that this game should only be played the way they like to play it, RATHER than having the balls or skills to confront and engage another of their same-type player, they go and grief or attempt to force pvp on peaceniks. And so the problem blooms.

If everyone would respect the other gamers, and the peaceniks dally away in their eutopias, while the pvpers raid, kill and pillage each other then everyone could play the sandbox and all would be happy (on that aspect anyway). I have no problem with the pvper types as long as they show both the respect (for the game and the devs) and the courage by playing with their own kind, which is what is required to make a sandbox game successful.

[burgingham]

Are you people all partially blind? Just read what you want to read...ordinary lazyness when it comes to thinking for yourselves I guess.

[Spiff]

Who gives a fuck where they are? Half of them are nubs who ragequit like you. 1/4 are JTG's alts and the rest are active players and their alts. Really, no one cares that this game isn't as popular as runescape. It's not finished and it is seeing a regular influx of players despite a complete lack of official advertising (e.g %100 WoM advertizing). Seriously. No body gives a fuck you are REAGQUITTING over your own stupid mistakes.

If you've devolved into abuse, then: Spoken like a true Goon. Maybe, just maybe, this post will make people realize that for all your seemingly standing up for the game, you're just being as selfish a prick as any I've seen come from that website you so proudly represent. "Yeah, let's drive the pubbies away! It's their fault! Game's dead? Not my fault."

"Who gives a fuck where they are?" you ask? Well, you know, maybe, just maybe, Jorb and Loftar do. Maybe they don't want their game to be dead on arrival. And maybe they'll finally realize that they need to curb this rampant griefing for which Goons have become infamous, even though they're by no means the only ones to resort to it.

As I said, I can see nothing good emerge from this game as long as this is allowed to continue.

Chak ain't a goon (far from). Stop blaming those damn goons for your problems.

[jorb]

The thing is that players who don't want to be forced into a war should have a way of remaining out of it.

Sadly I have to say that this shows a lack of understanding for the game mechanics. If people cannot attack you, then what is to prevent you from, for example, building offensively? How does the game detect whether or not you are staying within the limits of your professed peacefulness? What prevents you from hogging a specific resource? I think open PvP is a requirement for a sandbox to work at all. At the more quantum levels of analysis the distinction between offensive and defensive acts becomes meaningless. For example: If i build a forest of drying frames around your camp, am I being constructive or destructive, and how would the game know? Even if I thought it possible, though, I wouldn't want to get rid of open PvP, as I think it's a core feature of the game.

@ burg: If and when we do implement alternative sources of metal, they shouldn't be able to hold a candle to mines in terms of quantity and reliability of output. I picture a player panning/trudging through the bogs for a good damn while, exposed to mosquitoes and snakes and shit, and getting a few nuggets for the effort. It's more about implementing some alternate route to metal, rather than an Autobahn to it. It generally bothers me that metal is non-renewable. I do believe that serious amounts of metal at good quality should more or less be limited to mine owners.

Also, yes. I've had moments with this game where the PvP -- despite broken combat and black skills and claims and walls made of wet cardboard and blah, blah, blah -- has really shone like gold and diamonds. Saving a certain someone from a certain someone else was certainly one of those moments (James, Jesse was the guy in the boat, if you know what I'm talking about ) and I wouldn't want to lose that at all. Some of the drama has been so juicy.

@ People advocating quick-fixes: No.

[Vetarnian]

Who gives a fuck where they are? Half of them are nubs who ragequit like you. 1/4 are JTG's alts and the rest are active players and their alts. Really, no one cares that this game isn't as popular as runescape. It's not finished and it is seeing a regular influx of players despite a complete lack of official advertising (e.g %100 WoM advertizing). Seriously. No body gives a fuck you are REAGQUITTING over your own stupid mistakes.

If you've devolved into abuse, then: Spoken like a true Goon. Maybe, just maybe, this post will make people realize that for all your seemingly standing up for the game, you're just being as selfish a prick as any I've seen come from that website you so proudly represent. "Yeah, let's drive the pubbies away! It's their fault! Game's dead? Not my fault."

"Who gives a fuck where they are?" you ask? Well, you know, maybe, just maybe, Jorb and Loftar do. Maybe they don't want their game to be dead on arrival. And maybe they'll finally realize that they need to curb this rampant griefing for which Goons have become infamous, even though they're by no means the only ones to resort to it.

As I said, I can see nothing good emerge from this game as long as this is allowed to continue.

Chak ain't a goon (far from). Stop blaming those damn goons for your problems.

To my knowledge, Goons have never attempted anything against me in this game. I'm quite familiar with their general behaviour, though. And if Chak ain't a Goon, how did he find himself in charge of Chernobyl, as per that other thread?

[Spiff]

To my knowledge, Goons have never attempted anything against me in this game. I'm quite familiar with their general behaviour, though.

That must be one sabinati, one of the most respected traders in the game, is leader of the goon village. Interesting that. When you've got a forum with over a hundred thousand users, you can't just us all by the same brush.

And if Chak ain't a Goon, how did he find himself in charge of Chernobyl, as per that other thread?

Ha.

[sabinati]

chak isn't in charge of chernobyl. delamore was joking or lying or whatever. being delamore.