Escapist on a plate

[GoogleBot]

Okay, in this Germanic-Scandinavian Northern European game we have dreamcatchers, pumpkins and tobacco. Okay.... I'm good with that. No cultural dissonance here.

I rather like the karma suggestion. I was sorry to see it go when they took it out. It would be nice to bring back karma to add to those turbans that I see so many of my village members wearing lately...

In that case could we please get curry, make saris out of silk and have elephants too?!!

Just saying. I really like elephants.

[Zamte]

A karma system would definately at least make it fair. The thing is that as a person who's just playing the game for fun, to build my territory, and to enjoy having an effect on the world, I am usually going to be full change because it's what allows me to progress at the best rate. For somebody who's a griefer-type player, once they get the general skills they need for griefing (mostly the combat ones), they can put their points into stuff like unarmed/melee combat, and happily smack anybody around they like. This means that once they get a decent base to start from they can be full tradition without much negative impact at all. It'd still be slower, sure, but you don't require a constantly rising unarmed/melee skill to murder a bunch of farmers who likely have 20-30 max themselves.

I like the idea of gaining LP faster in exchange for more risk, but the problem is that there are other things which ought to be risks. When you can be full tradition and run around killing people, and only lose 25% of the LP you've probably built up plenty of you don't really need, then you're happy to run around doing it. If you actually get tracked and killed back, oh well. You remake the same character with a bit less melee skill and go back to doing your thing. Meanwhile you can relish the fact you just cost random Mr. ??? three months of his time.

There just needs to be a debuff which lowers LP saved if killed. It should be totally seperate from change/tradition values. If you've got 50% lose worth, you lose your 25-75% from death then another 50% of whatever is left over. It should be able to scale all the way to 100%. The whole point of ranging is to be able to pay people back for being griefers, and to be able to create some semblance of law and justice, or so it comes across, anyways. However when the griefer only has a low chance to be tracked (because the farmers can't do anything to him anyways most of the time) and loses very little if he does, and because the little he loses is less important to him than it would be to a different type of player, he really has no risk. There's no sense of justice or punishment if the punishee is not affected by the punishment. On the other hand however, I think when utilizing scents, a ranger should be given the opposite. If you were able to gain a boost to saved LPs, equal but opposite to the penalty the criminal has, then people would be much more likely to (and enjoy as there's little to no risk) bother ranging for others. They'd still risk losing character/name/equipment but if they could keep most or all of their LPs (only if killed while in combat with the scent criminal, even if the kill was landed by another player) then they wouldn't have to fear losing for the sake of helping.

Another thing I think would really help is a more passive component to ranging. Perhaps the ability to detect if another player you come across has a "guilty conscience" (theft, assault, vandalism), or "blood on their hands" (battery, murder). You would not require scents to detect these attributes, but would not be able to act on them either, at least not with the above mentioned benefits. However battering or killing these types of players would not leave scents. These detections would require high perception rolls against the character's stealth, but could be used by rangers to find criminals without scents, and by wary players to decide who is and isn't safe to trade or deal with. Perhaps you could even add opposite attributes for people who use this system or scents to track down criminals. Making them "heroic" for theft, assault or vandalism criminals, or "valiant" for battery and murder criminals.

[Potjeh]

yes but then every little griefer will
build their walls in layers so it takes
5 days to get someone back for taking
your milk, and trust me, i hate having
to tear down walls to get a kill.

Especially when there are more than
1 layers...


Maybe if i could build a ballista on the
spot and not have to wait a day for it
to be seen, destroyed, and another
layer of wall built?

Please don't make defenses perfect...

Yeah, it is indeed an issue. IIRC I suggested way back to separate thefts & assassinations from destructive raids. Basically, you ought to be able to scale walls, but only unarmed and unarmoured. The claim would defend itself (guard dogs, traps, etc) and the longer you stay the more dangerous it should get. Of course, entering itself should come with a hefty risk, so people don't game the system by just entering and leaving repeatedly. And FFS, make it impossible to kill cattle when infiltrating like this. Breaking the walls, on the other hand, would allow you to enter with armour on, which should negate most of the claim's defences.

[Etna]

My sympathies. Personally i usually tend to see robberies as fresh starts. I've had my places busted a few times, and, after the initial shock passes, I usually just pick up whatever is left and move. It's usually a fresh start, and the pain of loss subsides quickly when you are suddenly unburdened by the responsibilities of ownership. Then again I'm also very much a solo player.

Your game attracts a lot of Care Bears.

ADD SHARKS.

AND DRAGONS.

The game is based on the past of Europe, there were no Dragons back then and no Dragons now, and sharks, sharks swim in the ocean, not fucking lakes and rivers you idiot.

My grand grand father disagrees, he killed a dragon, we still have the dragon leather armor in our basement, it smells like chicken and cookies

He lost his shield arm in the fight, are you saying that's all fake?

[Brickbreaker]

Just to put it out there. People can break palisades without using rams now. Just so you know and not get surprised...

Lower Skill Caps?

[Lothaudus]

Yeah, it is indeed an issue. IIRC I suggested way back to separate thefts & assassinations from destructive raids. Basically, you ought to be able to scale walls, but only unarmed and unarmoured.

So that when you get over the wall, you can take your armour out of your inventory and put it back on¹. Or if you're climbing over the wall into the player's Vault, steal and equip their armour and use it against them for extra lulz... or grab their resources and build your own inside their camp if they've left the necessary requirements around.

¹Just pointing out that you'd need a weight-based inventory system to stop that or some other mechanic to prevent that... such as you can possibly only climb over with an empty inventory (which means getting in is easy enough but getting out with anything of value, oh wait... hearth-porting).

The claim would defend itself (guard dogs, traps, etc) and the longer you stay the more dangerous it should get. Of course, entering itself should come with a hefty risk, so people don't game the system by just entering and leaving repeatedly. And FFS, make it impossible to kill cattle when infiltrating like this. Breaking the walls, on the other hand, would allow you to enter with armour on, which should negate most of the claim's defences.

A quick search on traps reveals about 22 pages of threads. I think we need another monster merge thread. :smug:

[Flame]

I mean, new to the game is one thing but you'd have to be new to the internet to discount griefers, trolls, and outright morons.

7 years since i was in internet, playing several games and several forums.
This is the first time where i see so many grievers and moron all in a place. Usually are few people.

This could mean something, afterall.

[Escaleone]

I fail to see how someone could come into a game like this and not expect to be mugged, regardless of circumstance. Removing that capacity would remove most of the tension between players and the difficulty of survival (even bears are foiled by boats and walls).

Solution: Attach yourself to a large village if you don't like being naked in the woods. Once people start hunting down common thieves, thieves stop being common.
Alternative: Just defend your own woods.

(As much fun as traps are, I really hope they aren't added such that they make crime require armies and/or exploits.)

7 years since i was in internet, playing several games and several forums.
This is the first time where i see so many grievers and moron all in a place. Usually are few people.

This could mean something, afterall.

Ultima Online. The odds of each passerby stabbing you in the face were over 20% until the devs made it magically impossible to do so.

[Xanthic]

7 years since i was in internet, playing several games and several forums.
This is the first time where i see so many grievers and moron all in a place. Usually are few people.

This could mean something, afterall.

  Really? Wow. I'm actually in shock and awe. Even when I played BBS games there were primitive trolls and the like there.
  More modern games however would be more recognizable... Diablo? Who remembers all the griefers who'd make a server with a name like 'Low level power leveling', which would turn out to be a happy-fun-murder-fest for trolls who'd turned on the PvP option? Diablo2 was just the same of course, same problem. Beyond that, Everquest, WoW, heck, Counterstrike, any game where you get a bunch of people together is recognized for being trolled and griefers abusing the game mechanics to the best of their ability to limit or reduce the enjoyment of the game for others.
  Not really bitching about it, it's a fact of the internet. Just pointing out that I'm really envious of you if you've been on the internet for seven years and this is the worst game you've seen for griefers and morons. Let alone that you've played several games and forums.

[Sidran]

7 years since i was in internet, playing several games and several forums.
This is the first time where i see so many grievers and moron all in a place. Usually are few people.

This could mean something, afterall.

  Really? Wow. I'm actually in shock and awe. ....
....
.... Let alone that you've played several games and forums.

Current rules encourage compensatory behavior to some extent. If an adolescent is marginal and frustrated in real life, here he/she has a great opportunity to get so much needed attention lacking in real life. Thats ok, but the question should be: At what cost to the other players? Lets not pretend that Jorb or anyone else at our current stage of technological development can create satisfactory simulation of real world. It is impossible. Consequences of that are ruthless and simplistic game mechanics (compared to real life). Thus, rules IMO also must reflect that reality and allow everyone to have a proper choice.

Ill ask again, as it seems no one is reading my posts or doesnt understand them..
What is unreal about possibility to bury containers (empty or not) wherever we please within the game? Hiding of valuable stuff is one of the best ways to protect without brute force and enforced confrontation. Let them dig if they think its worth it.. let them follow their victims to find out hiding spots.. Theft also requires some effort along with serious risks (at least in real world in case you are not a banker or army general).