Haven 2.0: "Hafen"

[McJager]

It's either fun for someone or it's not. If it's fun after hundreds of hours of tedium, then the tedium needs to be cut out. What we have now is as if you had to clock 100 hours on a bicycle in GTA before you could drive a car.

I lol'd to hard at that. I love the comparison. I do agree there is a lot of tedium in the game, Brickwalls, Stone mansions, fishing. But, It's hard to balance that without completely destroying the sense of accomplishment of having done it... Not that you feel accomplished fishing but I mean a hermit building a stone mansion or a brickwall on their own, THAT'S Impressive.

[Xcom]

The issue isn't that we are contempt with content cause not a single person here said so. The problem is in the need to remove large parts of the game just so everyone can have an easymode cap they can reach in 2 weeks of gameplay. Then when cap is reached to defeat the dragon and feel accomplishing feeling WoW gamers feel, then to move to the next new game.

No thank you.

[McJager]

The issue with that statement is even people who have done everything in WoW still play it. I've been playing WoW for almost... I think it will be 9 or 10 years this November, And I have literally done everything there is to do, Including running around in a skirt punching people in the face and being killed by someone while screaming Yolo420blazeitbruh. I think if there was a cap for Haven stats that their should be some form of repeatable endgame content, I'm not saying raids or dungeons and shit like that I'm talking maybe some form of random events and such that give you a reason to stick around. It's based in the iron age correct? Well, I'm sure they had droughts, pestilence, And plague so... take from that what you will. Not to mention maybe randomly genned npcs other than animals would be interesting.

[Potjeh]

Building mansions, brickwalls etc. is more than fine IMO, and I don't think they're too costly. My beef is with making three million pumpkin pies and two million straw dolls. And again, if there's nothing to do in a game after you've done all the content, it has no business being an MMO.

[Kaios]

I don't see any major problems with what Danno and Potjeh have suggested thus far and Potjeh has been pushing this issue for I don't know how long now but if there has been a discussion regarding the character or quality grind aspects of this game Potjeh has most certainly been involved in it.

Hypothetically, were these changes to be made, I can understand that from some of your perspectives you see these sorts of changes as diminishing the overall challenge this game has to offer but that is only because it really only offers one challenge if you truly think about it.

As it is currently, there is only ONE major time sink in Haven & Hearth, this being the quality grind. Yes you have different resources and you have to build up different skills to be capable of increasing those resources in a variety of manners but in the end everything links together and what you're pushing is essentially a single set of numbers that ALL play a role in the final product. There is no form of pre-set currency, items and services are all valued by the players themselves, the only thing that never changes for anyone is time.

There's no variety, no chance for something unique or unexpected to happen, it is the same damn thing every single time and to me THAT is the main issue Danno and Potjeh are trying to express. They aren't trying to limit what you can do or change major parts of the game to suit their own gaming tastes, they just want a game that is actually fun past the early stages of play.

[loftar]

My beef is with making three million pumpkin pies and two million straw dolls.

Then again, if you hadn't had to do something to gain the character you wanted, you wouldn't have anything to lose if he died, would you?

[Kaios]

Also how can anyone complain that putting a hard cap or even just a soft cap on the attack skills would ruin their feeling of character progression?

That moment when you log in and receive heaping amounts of LP after having not played for 14 hours must really be giving you a strong feeling of progress.

[brohammed]

Some of the people poo-pooing Danno and potjeh are uncharitably taking their arguments to complete extremes, nobody is saying shitcan numbers and make time invested not count at all but the current values for time invested and noob/nolifer delta are really fucking ludicrous for me personally.

I can't really add anything that they haven't said already but, like, jesus, don't fear "dumbing down" so much, haven's already at the maximum possible level of impenetrability to people with rl commitments, it's not going to turn into a candy crush moba where my grandmother accidentally burns your entire village if it gets rebalanced a bit in favour of accessibility. Maybe the rebalances will be successful and it'll gain 2000 active players, is that so unthinkable? I think that would be great and also a realistic goal. I really enjoyed the mid-level trading I got done in w3 and 4.

Don't dismiss people entirely on their hours either, remember if you're a high level player advocating for the status quo it's not entirely because your 1500 hours have given you insight into the game; while that is true, you're also arguing to preserve your current place.

[loftar]

Also how can anyone complain that putting a hard cap or even just a soft cap on the attack skills would ruin their feeling of character progression?

... because there would be no progression after the cap is reached? Seems like an easy question to me.

That moment when you log in and receive a heaping amounts of LP after having not played for 14 hours must really be giving you a strong feeling of progress.

To be fair, though, that's just because those "heaping amount of LP" are the consequences of earlier actions, rather than the previous 14 hours.

[Kaios]

... because there would be no progression after the cap is reached? Seems like an easy question to me.

On a hard cap yes, but I'm sure you could easily think of ways to implement a soft cap and many have been suggested. Either way though there needs to be other areas of progression beyond character stats and quality grind, and with the current curiosity mechanics and offline LP gain I would argue that character progression is barely meaningful progression at all. The attributes are where all effort really goes.

To be fair, though, that's just because those "heaping amount of LP" are the consequences of earlier actions, rather than the previous 14 hours.

It's just a poorly though out system in my opinion.

It is nice that it allows players to focus more on the production aspects of Haven & Hearth rather than the character progression aspect, but the balance between the two is not right at all. You spend an hour or two of your time searching for curiosities which can keep a character or SEVERAL characters supplied for days and spend the rest of your time working on village production, but what happens when you're at a point where you can no longer progress until some time has passed? A game should not force its players to log off because they can't do anything else, at least not a good game.

Of course the previous system of LP through actions was not any better, but it was at least a form of another time sink where players weren't actually bored out of their minds.