Haven 2.0: "Hafen"

[LadyV]

Very well one more foray in to the maelstorm I guess.

What is grind? Generally its repetitive actions that get boring or serve little purpose. That is if we assume it has no purpose.

Everything in Haven has a purpose, even if you don't see or use it. Someone somewhere does. This is not a debatable point.

Is quality and stat levels and issue in having fun? Maybe. We go back to what is grind. If the only game content is raising and raising some more both skills and stats with nothing else then yes grind can set in. This why why Haven needs much much more long term content.

I've said this many times now. Skills need prerequisites to achieve them. Then they need use to perfect them. Just because I now know how to make steel does not mean Ive learned the complexities of plate casting, reinforcements, and hard points. The same applies to weaponry. I may have basic weaponry knowledge but to pick up a B12 with no prior knowledge does not make me an instant master with it.

When we continually raise quality, stats, or skills its not a grind if we have a point to work toward. Again that is need for content.

Since this began as talk about combat Im just tossing this out. Weaponry and armor needs overhaul. They do not serve their purpose and force one direction. A b12 for example is a slashing and crushing weapon. Its natural opponet would be plate armors. A Soldiers sword would be a slashing and piercing weapon. Its match would either be chainlmail or plate equally. What I am pointing out is every weapon and armor should be special and viable depending on the strategy you choose to use. Currently they are not so.

Ultimately combat must have several things. Some of these are skills, technology, a form of morale, and the ability for players to innovate within the system. Movement combat is a perfect example. It allows for players to overcome obstacles to fell potentially greater enemies. Thus evening out the system.

I know many of you are going to disagree with me on this because lets be honest to many seek to balance such things toward faction combat and heavy pvp. Haven needs balance for all play styles not a narrow view. Plenty of people play with little aim for a pure pvp or faction based system. Argue all you want but it is true.

Above I've just suggested a few things. If you are serious about your issues then offer a solution. Otherwise you are only debating the wind.

Thank you for reading!

[Duderock]

I for one consider it an extremely central part of what makes RPGs fun, and I wouldn't really want to replace it with something else. Note, of course, that "investing in your character" doesn't necessarily have to mean "grinding stat numbers", but removing it also removes the focus from the character itself, which makes the game less of an RPG.

The focus wouldn't be entirely removed. What about social status and historical significance? These are all elements exclusive to the character and imo far exceed importance than stat numbers (as proven by reality).

But if stat building is concrete in your plans for this game then that's fine. No arguing with that .

[loftar]

I know many of you are going to disagree with me on this

TBH, I can't really imagine anyone disagreeing with any of that. If there's one problem with your post, I'd consider it to be that it's just simply obvious, even to the point of banality. :)

[loftar]

What about social status and historical significance? These are all elements exclusive to the character and imo far exceed importance than stat numbers (as proven by reality).

They are also intangible.

[Duderock]

They are also intangible.

So?

[TeckXKnight]

They are also intangible.

So?

Meaning they aren't really something you can program into a game in a quantifiable way. Either they occur organically or they will not occur at all.

[LadyV]

I know many of you are going to disagree with me on this

TBH, I can't really imagine anyone disagreeing with any of that. If there's one problem with your post, I'd consider it to be that it's just simply obvious, even to the point of banality.

Sometimes when you are thick in argument and disagreement its helpful to return to the basic issues at hand and instead of debating long what ifs we can then fix point by point.

[Massa]

They are also intangible.

So?

Meaning they aren't really something you can program into a game in a quantifiable way. Either they occur organically or they will not occur at all.

Yes, we don't need a meter telling us what x and y is, when the events of the game will tell you yourself.
Like Teck-poo said, why not let things flourish organically?
Those things are done by the players lol.

[Duderock]

Meaning they aren't really something you can program into a game in a quantifiable way. Either they occur organically or they will not occur at all.

Here is another idea I once posted a while ago.

It was called 'King of H&H'. It's quite simple;

There would be a single crown that:
- Could not be crafted
- Could not be destroyed
- Can be tracked by anyone with an easily made scent
- Offered no benefits whatsoever
- Whoever wears it has their name displayed somewhere for all to see

The reception was quite positive. Of course there are flaws in it such as alt vaults etc... but it's just a way of showing how something like this can work. Very fitting for a sandbox imo. I'm sure lots of users can suggest ways to implement social features similar to that.

[loftar]

There would be a single crown that:
[...]

Yes, we have actually considered such ideas on numerous occasions, and we don't hate it all too much at all, and it may well become a reality one day. We've just prioritized other things.