When to say when?

[Astarisk]

Naa. These are just bad ideas.

Can you explain why?

Well, first off you got the issue that I can just teleport somewhere and rebuild my hearthfire, which negates the entire purpose of your change. But for the sake of your idea lets say that its not possible to do this. All you've managed to do was turn tracking and scents into a crime and punishment type system. Which if I recall correctly is not what it is suppose to be. Scents where just put into place to help give an idea of who committed the crime. It was not meant to be an end all to crime and punishment.

Note: I may edit this more later to include a bit more, playing a game at the moment and can't be bothered to get into a lengthy discussion.

[Kurundo]

Well as it stands, scents are just a system for a ranger to waste his/her time tracking until he finds that they lead to a vault and gives up because they don't intend to camp a ram while those inside the vault port out and move their hearthfires.

I thought scents were in place to make you accountable for your actions, there is no "good" or "bad" but there certainly is swatting at a beehive and getting stung. I'm fine with fucking with people, I'm fine with it happening to me but it's gotten a bit out of hand with how easy it is to get away with everything these days.

Brickbashing removes the security of villages but even still those who have not left scents can log off and not die, and those who have... well it sucks for them I suppose but they mad that choice knowing the risks. Of course the brickbasher leaves scents and you can feel free to get your revenge and take out a character with a hefty FEP investment.

Indestructable hearth fires force you to fight your way out or hope to can smash their ram before it finishes drying or if it's walled you sneak out with hearth fire above head and move wherever you do, but wherever you do you do it by foot and boat.

[Astarisk]

(see above post)

It seems that your trying to solve the problem by changing something unrelated to the problem. Hearthvaults are the current problem in this meta game. To be even more precise the real root of the problems is the current sieging mechanics. indestructible HF's may seem like the solution, but its not. With a little creative thinking I could easily get around that. Ill get to that point later in this discussion though.
What you are suggesting is to make them unkillable, but what do you mean by that? Do you want it to just be indestructible if you have scents out? Or do you want it indestructible period. If its indestructible period then you just basically made it that much harder for a guy to move away from his old spot. If its only indestructible while you have scents, we are now back to the root of the problem..

I can see many foreseeable problems with this idea. A major one being, what would stop me from going to my enemies walls, and just flat out blocking all their gates with a cornerpost or two so they can never leave, well you just automatically sentenced the guy to a death (provided the attacker somehow manages to keep his ram up). This right there is where the problem lies. Keeping a ram up for 24 hours, especially on villagers or hearthvaults surrounded by water. It solves nothing, they'll go out bash the ram and return to their cozy vaults, nothing has changed and instead you introduced a wrath of problems upon everyone else. It seems all suggestions want to target everything but the root of the problem.

Now I'll exclude these foreseeable problems and pretend its a perfect world where your idea is implemented. All it will take is a little creativity to get around. For example, there are currently 6(?) layers to the current world. I could build a little vault onto each layer. Then when the times comes, I can move my HF down each layer for each vault that is about to be compromised. That will by me a good bit of time while my scents slowly fade away. So now the attacker has to go back and assault each layer at a different time, or thin his forces and watch all 6 rams at once. All this just to kill a single guy or two. Now aside from that, a ram takes 24 hours to dry. I have a chance during any of those hours to just pick up my HF and leave my vault and head towards another one. This idea adds nothing that can't be abused.

Edit: I also failed to address the dilemma brick bashers introduce. Ill just leave it at this, its already hell for a newbie with wood walls, imagine what you open when a guy can arrive to your nicely laid out brick wall at any time and just kill off your village.

Hopefully someone else besides me will start to interject their thoughts into whats been said, I feel like I've reached my yearly post limit within a day.

[TeckXKnight]

Well, the core of your idea is to make Hearthfires invulnerable and moveable. This is bad for a lot of reasons, primarily because they become an invincible wall -- tougher than even brick and immune to rams. Alts will be the most valuable commodity for creating impenetrable cities and vaults or trapping other people. If you make it so that anyone can lift them and move them, then you run into the issue of not only kidnapping and murdering people in the safety of your cellar where no one can ever track the scents or figure out where it occurred but you can also effectively trap hearthlings permanently; which is actually a fate worse than death because you don't get any of your lp back for reincarnation or any of the other benefits of taking on ancestors. It's not hard to pick someone's hearthfire up and stuff it into a small brick walled area.

[Kurundo]

Problems with altered HFs

I intended them as liftable by anyone, and even if you are trapped in a brick wall cell you could plow the ground into starvation