Botting Tutorials for Newbies DEBATE

[Jester87]

You know, there used to be something called integrity between players. They tried to build communities, investing time and effort within them. This didn't mean they all agreed or that they personally handicapped themselves but, instead, sought to play the game how they wanted within the confines of the game itself. The problem arises when people place such a high amount of focus upon the end result in game that the overall community suffers for it. "I should use a bot because it gives a visible advantage over those that dont." "If I dont use bots, then I cant compete with those who can." "Everybody uses bots to win, so why cant I?" At this point we focus too much on the end result rather than the act of doing. At this point the community starts to suffer greatly, if not dying all together.

Bots, and to some extent specialty clients, cause damage to the game and, as players, we should only do things that are beneficial to the game.

To sum this up, "Just because we have the power to do something, does not necessitate that it must be done."

My reaction is simply created by the nature of the game itself. Why should I give a flying firetruck about this community if it doesn't do the same?

Also enjoy "We Didn't Start the Fire" because I think it is relevant here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFTLKWw542g

[bmjclark]

I'm by no means saying i like botting, but when so many people bot things like farming, filling troughs with the fodder, ect ect it shows a great deal towards just how boring and tedious those things are. I'm sorry, but theres just no way in hell you should have to click for every single piece of fodder you put in a trough. 200 right clicks to fill a trough, that's not enjoyable game play imo.

Starve botting, hunger should be changed to something where you can't just stand there plowing ground for it, probably won't happen any time soon, but again, plowing ground over and over by hand - not good game play.

I'm not saying bots are good, don't get me wrong, but there are certain mechanics that need to be changed so people don't feel the need to bot them.

[jordancoles]

I'm by no means saying i like botting, but when so many people bot things like farming, filling troughs with the fodder, ect ect it shows a great deal towards just how boring and tedious those things are. I'm sorry, but theres just no way in hell you should have to click for every single piece of fodder you put in a trough. 200 right clicks to fill a trough, that's not enjoyable game play imo.

Starve botting, hunger should be changed to something where you can't just stand there plowing ground for it, probably won't happen any time soon, but again, plowing ground over and over by hand - not good game play.

I'm not saying bots are good, don't get me wrong, but there are certain mechanics that need to be changed so people don't feel the need to bot them.

This. It would be different if the game was a finished product. We're all still *technically* alpha/beta testers.

[burgingham]

Also they've posted about botting and don't like it, but they've never threatened to ban you.

Jorb once stated he might very well accidentally swing the hammer of the gods to bash in your head if he finds you doing repititive tasks all day long. So while it never/rarely actually happened I wouldn't get too comfortable. The devs don't like botting and when they see you doing it they might smash your little hermitage to pieces.

so have someone else do it. or find a singleplayer version of this type of game if you dont want human interaction. or play a shooter if the only interaction you want with them is killing them.

Don't bother dude, nobody here gets that anymore. The only players left are a bunch of serial killers. The crowd enjoying social or political or economical aspects of the game has long gone. The crowd enjoying upping q, farming etc too. Now you are getting called a farmville player when you enjoy that part of the game. Sad days...

Point in case: Everyone here hating on kralmir although his points are the only valid ones in the thread. Before anyone bothers: Yes I used scripts too, but only in so far that I think they should be in the UI anyway (which was basically selecting an area to farm or mine and nothing else).

[Jester87]

Also they've posted about botting and don't like it, but they've never threatened to ban you.

Jorb once stated he might very well accidentally swing the hammer of the gods to bash in your head if he finds you doing repititive tasks all day long. So while it never/rarely actually happened I wouldn't get too comfortable. The devs don't like botting and when they see you doing it they might smash your little hermitage to pieces.

so have someone else do it. or find a singleplayer version of this type of game if you dont want human interaction. or play a shooter if the only interaction you want with them is killing them.

Don't bother dude, nobody here gets that anymore. The only players left are a bunch of serial killers. The crowd enjoying social or political or economical aspects of the game has long gone. The crowd enjoying upping q, farming etc too. Now you are getting called a farmville player when you enjoy that part of the game. Sad days...

Point in case: Everyone here hating on kralmir although his points are the only valid ones in the thread. Before anyone bothers: Yes I used scripts too, but only in so far that I think they should be in the UI anyway (which was basically selecting an area to farm or mine and nothing else).

You know, you're pretty much right. So why not just let everyone skip the farming step altogether and give pvp worthy stats from day 1? Why make it so we have to jump through bot hoops to get there? I came here playing legit, but I'm done with it. Only after major changes are made will I ever return to legit playing.

[SquirrelWizard]

My reaction is simply created by the nature of the game itself. Why should I give a flying firetruck about this community if it doesn't do the same?

Okay, lets face it. This is the same small minded crap that got us here in the first place. Nobody wants to take responsibility for their actions, and because there is no consequences everything just goes down the toilet. If through your choice of action you contribute to the player base for the game dying out, then you have no one to blame but yourself.

Want the game to improve? Want a stronger, better, community? Work on it.

[burgingham]

You know, you're pretty much right. So why not just let everyone skip the farming step altogether and give pvp worthy stats from day 1? Why make it so we have to jump through bot hoops to get there? I came here playing legit, but I'm done with it. Only after major changes are made will I ever return to legit playing.

Suit yourself, but sheds a bad light on what state the game is in. And I don't mean the tedious grinding work by that. That used to be part of the game. High investment chars for permadeath PvP...I used to be against it too, but seeing what the world has come to without them makes me reconsider.

For all those who still don't get it: This game was never made to be a PvP game. Open permadeath PvP is just a necessary mechanic to support the kind of social, economic and political simulation the game aims to be. The community and some very unbalanced mechanics have made that game go to shit though and create a broken sport hunting game frankly of which there are better ones out there if that is the game you are aiming for.

If it were up to me I would remove the entire combat system from the game and just make it an exchange of punches letting the higher number win till the day the devs find time to implement something real. That would make the game at least somewhat go back to its roots.

Seems slightly off topic, but OPs goal seems to be to engage in PvP and for that to use bots.

[Jester87]

You know, you're pretty much right. So why not just let everyone skip the farming step altogether and give pvp worthy stats from day 1? Why make it so we have to jump through bot hoops to get there? I came here playing legit, but I'm done with it. Only after major changes are made will I ever return to legit playing.

Suit yourself, but sheds a bad light on what state the game is in. And I don't mean the tedious grinding work by that. That used to be part of the game. High investment chars for permadeath PvP...I used to be against it too, but seeing what the world has come to without them makes me reconsider.

For all those who still don't get it: This game was never made to be a PvP game. Open permadeath PvP is just a necessary mechanic to support the kind of social, economic and political simulation the game aims to be. The community and some very unbalanced mechanics have made that game go to shit though and create a broken sport hunting game frankly of which there are better ones out there if that is the game you are aiming for.

If it were up to me I would remove the entire combat system from the game and just make it an exchange of punches letting the higher number win till the day the devs find time to implement something real. That would make the game at least somewhat go back to its roots.

Seems slightly off topic, but OPs goal seems to be to engage in PvP and for that to use bots.

You're sorta getting at what I am asking. What made me really think about this was after I got sniped behind palisade walls. Imho, it needs to be changed because it's unsportsmanlike and doesn't make much sense to shoot through a solid wall. It made me consider that the nature of the game is, in essence, a big hunt where the powerful elite randomly PK people for no particular reason or gain. I was typing and got sniped - no fun and no skill there. So my reaction is to bot my way back up, and I simply ask "why not bring everyone along with me if thats how its going to be?"

Honestly, I want a more complex game where deaths happen in REAL combat, and its more than just walking up and shooting a rock at my head from outside of my walls. Place the emphasis back on social and economic aspects and get rid of bots completely. Give more protection to those inside temporary safe zones (read: Palisades). Thats what I'd like to see, but it won't happen unless we force change. I see pushing bots to a point where they break the game is a way of forcing change for the better if it means forcing w7 with a massive overhaul. What do you think?

[burgingham]

It made me consider that the nature of the game is, in essence, a big hunt where the powerful elite randomly PK people for no particular reason or gain.

It wasn't always that way. The elite used to protect peaceful farmers and hunt down criminals. Mostly because their rangers were bored, but at least powerful and peaceful factions existed back then. The current state the game is in doesn't allow for that anymore.

Honestly, I want a more complex game where deaths happen in REAL combat, and its more than just walking up and shooting a rock at my head from outside of my walls.

Would be awesome, now wouldn't it be? A real incentive to fight over territory, ressources and such? Not going out: "Huehuehue lets kill the newbies..." which is what happens these days. The combat system itself is not very good either and caters those who exploit it.

I see pushing bots to a point where they break the game is a way of forcing change for the better if it means forcing w7 with a massive overhaul. What do you think?

Won't help much. The devs will be busy with Salem, their professional project for at least another half a year or so. Only then will they come back to developing HnH.

[Valten21]

Kralmir I understand your integrity and why you value it. However, I think that there need to be mechanics changes to better protect legit players from arbitrary losses. Anything lost can be regained with ample time. Bots just make it easier to come back when you lose a character. Imho mindless timesinks are no fun. i want to get to the endgame and PVP faster.

(as a side note, sniping is one of the primary reasons I'm reevaluating the way I play this game)

Would you consider them changing the farming to be more interesting, so there is more incentive to partake in that, rather then run around killing people? Or Botting as a matter of fact.