Salem Goes Open Beta

[Tonopah]

Exploits in pvp are actually part of The Internet Gaming Experience. To put it another way, name an internet game where no one uses exploits to gain advantage over an opponent. People will cheat, lie and steal to win. It's the way of the world.


See also: online gambling for real money = foolish beyond measure.

[Amanda44]

oh Amanda - "go play Farmville" is not nice

I didn't mean it as an insult when I wrote it borka, although on reflection I realise it does come across that way, as that is how it is mainly used, I didn't think it through.

@ Rhiannon - Sorry, I did actually mean it in the context I wrote it, I should have used a different example other than farmville, but what I meant was pve as opposed to pvp. - I guenuinely don't understand why a person would choose to play this type of game and then complain about the content. Why play pvp if you don't like those elements? - Is what I meant.

[Rhiannon]

I am probably what people in general would consider a 'carebear', I enjoy the crafting, foraging, farming and the construction of my village in preference to the combat side or 'griefing', BUT, I'm certainly not against these elements in the game, which is why I play hnh, it adds danger and excitement. I leave the village walls regularly on my main, I have been raided, attacked and nearly died to animals and I wouldn't have it any other way.

I'm also not against swimming bears, they do swim afterall and I agree that bears are far too easy to kill. This does not suddenly turn me into an 'uber war griefer', lol, you are being far too extreme in your interpretation of bitza's preferences. I've never played farmville - it sounds like a childrens game - but if you don't like the pvp aspect or any form of excitement from danger then why do you choose hnh over other games, like the one mentioned, it makes little sense to complain about these things when that is what the game consists of in equal measures to the crafting side.

Oh please, farmville..lol I've played this damn game since world 1, I don't think I would still be here if all that noise bothered me to the uber extreme ANY dared dissention towards it is made out to be by the "we know how to to do it so make it so hard only we can" crowd. WIth people claiming " I like to see people suffer" at the same time twenty 6 years olds are murdered in school and blah blah every other month is just a bit strange to me is all. I have no problem with legit murder, or bonifde vengence, or animals LEGIT killing you (not lag induced bullshite or having to use a mod client to see 100 squares away..lol), I have no problem with the ranging skill and people being harrassed or attacked for commiting crimes, or idiots turning swimming on and going across a lake with 20 constitution..lol. I do agree with Blitza about people using tricks and exploits and Vidols and claims for the purposes they do. What I do have a problem with is the glorification of griefing and grief PVP against those who do not wish to participate in it AS A GAMEPLAY STYLE. Blitza is right, I have played this game since approx 2 months before world 1 ended, and I have NOT griefed, raided or been a town slave in a griefer/war group. In that time I have been grief raided a couple times, I hae been grief murdered ONCE (World 4 I think) and all other deaths have been the result of aggro animals (Usually lag with a couple of accidental "Opps didn't see that bastard bear/boar behind that tree"...lol) I have only always had a problem with griefers and the idea that players should be FORCED to participate as a griefer slave or griefer themselves to get anywhere in the game. IF that is what i wanted to do I would just go play POSTAL and POSTAL 2.

SO no,I don't "Care" about those mechanics in the "let's play farmville" way people are claiming, unless people think they should be forced upon other players to succeed at all. IF J&J (as has been suggested) do not want H&H to be anything but a closet dormroom game to masterbate with blood as lube for a few folks )WHich I and Jorb have went at it about several times), so be it..lol..no problem...all couselors/therapistsa and psychastrists need to earn a living after all...lmao. BUT Salem certainly won't be financing it though...in the end, as most everyone's opinion here so far indicates. But NO, once again, I would not be here, even in this lag, still playing if my dared dissention to the "griefer love" was what It was being made out to be..lol There are things I don't like/care for, in every game. No biggy, but I would like to see HAVEN succeed, and unfortunately it never will unless some of those issues are addressed in a balanaced way that allows for enough people to play to make it worth the effort. And that is just an "Unfortunate truth" or even an "Inconvienient truth" to some.

[bitza]

WIth people claiming " I like to see people suffer" at the same time twenty 6 years olds are murdered in school and blah blah every other month is just a bit strange to me is all.

one of these things is not like the other

I have only always had a problem with griefers and the idea that players should be FORCED to participate as a griefer slave or griefer themselves to get anywhere in the game.

yeah, i would have a problem with that idea too, if that's the way things actually were

i'm genuinely curious now as to how you define "griefer", "slave", and "griefer slave" in the context of h&h?

[dra6o0n]

You do realize Hnh's farming is way more complex and interesting than farmville right?

In farmville you do repetitive tasks just to earn some freaking achievement.

In Hnh, things you earn through farming is used to feed yourself, and boost stats.

Heck if there were no farmers in Hnh, you guys wouldn't be able to build up your stats to insanely high 'one punch' characters...

[WarpedWiseMan]

So Salem opens up to the public and you poor misguided sots use the thread to discuss for the umpteenth gafillionth time how to improve Haven & Hearth, a game that will never be fixed or updated ever again.

Sigh. To fix the hearth vault problem, why not just make any hearths inside a building still clickable with scents?

[Caprica]

Haven & Hearth, a game that will never be fixed or updated ever again

Then shouldn't the proper procedure be.
1) Close registration
2) Announce "the end" and "Goodbye all"
3) Close down server to save expenses, as wouldn't this be a quite silly waste of money? or
4) If the money is no problem and this is just being left up for posterity or nostalgia, pop over to the code, spend a final "charity week" or so to clean it as much of it as possible, restart final world and go away after announcing it as such?

[LynnaWaters]

Actually, I was always in a certain way looking forward to having the epicness of HnH in a 3d world, because then, we wouldnt need Ender clients with hidden trees anymore to prevent being slaughtered by a boar hiding behind them. We could just look around corners. We could hide behind corners ourselves, which would all make a wonderful. amazing add to the already good pvp in HnH. This *Twig-breaking* *breathing in your neck* feeling from the oldschool first person mmorpgs, like EQ1 or Darkfall. But then, those were not that sandbox. This is a real sandbox! I chop a tree, i can replant it,i can build thigns, and so on, and it all even matters how i do them and theres even something more important that no game *dares* to do outthere: consequences!

So yeah, the thought of HnH in 3d, it was too good to be true. And it sadly was too. I was beta-testing. There was one major thing that made the whole 3d thing so obsolete and even aggrevating... Why would you even do the effort of making 3d when your camera-viewpoint just goes on pretending it's 2d? So i suggested, as a beta-tester that sees the access key as more than an early access, but an early access with a promise to help build the game, that they fix this camera view thing. You cant really play the game at all. First of all, you cant see further than your own feet. Secondly, it gives you the feeling the world is about 5 square meters big. Thirdly, You're busy more trying to fix the camera viewpoint more than enjoying the game.

But what came? No no, that's ALL not important, that you can't even see where you're character is running into. There needs to be more *what can i buy with silver* upgrades and holiday upgrades and other stuff. I rarely break off betatesting when i committed to this. But i just didn't see the point in going on helping them when something that makes the game stand or fall is just waved away like that. If they wanted to beat cash out of the HnH idea with making more fancy graphics and a powerup cashshop, then that idea failed horribly aswell. From what ive seen in other games, the fancier the graphics and the smoother the GUI, the easier you attract the kind of kids willing to blast away their money on all kinds of useless cashshop things. So if you can't even get your cameraviewpoint straight...

[Amanda44]

I am probably what people in general would consider a 'carebear', I enjoy the crafting, foraging, farming and the construction of my village in preference to the combat side or 'griefing', BUT, I'm certainly not against these elements in the game, which is why I play hnh, it adds danger and excitement. I leave the village walls regularly on my main, I have been raided, attacked and nearly died to animals and I wouldn't have it any other way.

I'm also not against swimming bears, they do swim afterall and I agree that bears are far too easy to kill. This does not suddenly turn me into an 'uber war griefer', lol, you are being far too extreme in your interpretation of bitza's preferences. I've never played farmville - it sounds like a childrens game - but if you don't like the pvp aspect or any form of excitement from danger then why do you choose hnh over other games, like the one mentioned, it makes little sense to complain about these things when that is what the game consists of in equal measures to the crafting side.

Oh please, farmville..lol I've played this damn game since world 1, I don't think I would still be here if all that noise bothered me to the uber extreme ANY dared dissention towards it is made out to be by the "we know how to to do it so make it so hard only we can" crowd. WIth people claiming " I like to see people suffer" at the same time twenty 6 years olds are murdered in school and blah blah every other month is just a bit strange to me is all. I have no problem with legit murder, or bonifde vengence, or animals LEGIT killing you (not lag induced bullshite or having to use a mod client to see 100 squares away..lol), I have no problem with the ranging skill and people being harrassed or attacked for commiting crimes, or idiots turning swimming on and going across a lake with 20 constitution..lol. I do agree with Blitza about people using tricks and exploits and Vidols and claims for the purposes they do. What I do have a problem with is the glorification of griefing and grief PVP against those who do not wish to participate in it AS A GAMEPLAY STYLE. Blitza is right, I have played this game since approx 2 months before world 1 ended, and I have NOT griefed, raided or been a town slave in a griefer/war group. In that time I have been grief raided a couple times, I hae been grief murdered ONCE (World 4 I think) and all other deaths have been the result of aggro animals (Usually lag with a couple of accidental "Opps didn't see that bastard bear/boar behind that tree"...lol) I have only always had a problem with griefers and the idea that players should be FORCED to participate as a griefer slave or griefer themselves to get anywhere in the game. IF that is what i wanted to do I would just go play POSTAL and POSTAL 2.

SO no,I don't "Care" about those mechanics in the "let's play farmville" way people are claiming, unless people think they should be forced upon other players to succeed at all. IF J&J (as has been suggested) do not want H&H to be anything but a closet dormroom game to masterbate with blood as lube for a few folks )WHich I and Jorb have went at it about several times), so be it..lol..no problem...all couselors/therapistsa and psychastrists need to earn a living after all...lmao. BUT Salem certainly won't be financing it though...in the end, as most everyone's opinion here so far indicates. But NO, once again, I would not be here, even in this lag, still playing if my dared dissention to the "griefer love" was what It was being made out to be..lol There are things I don't like/care for, in every game. No biggy, but I would like to see HAVEN succeed, and unfortunately it never will unless some of those issues are addressed in a balanaced way that allows for enough people to play to make it worth the effort. And that is just an "Unfortunate truth" or even an "Inconvienient truth" to some.

Wow! You certainly have some issues.

I won't deny that these type of games attract players that like the griefing style but I certainly wouldn't describe them all in such a black and white fashion, to imply that enjoying that side of the games mechanics is equal to eventualy growing up to gun down a bunch of schoolchildren or spend a lifetime in therapy is beyond extreme!

I won't deny i've been upset when I've been raided or felt angry with those responsible but once the initial discovery has passed and i've repaired and rebuilt, that feeling ebbs away, I fully understand that this is part of the game and can fully understand that others prefer to play in that way - I certainly don't blame them for enjoying the more 'exciting' style of game play or believe they are all potentially unstable because they do.

Neither do I accept that you are forced to play that way. I know a few villages and village leaders who have all the game has to offer without resorting to griefing in order to obtain it. In my own experience, as a hermit, it just takes longer and that is fine with me, i'm not in a race to have the best rescources in the shortest time, I enjoy Haven for what it is to me - creation and a sense of achievement, with the added bonus of meeting some really lovely people along the way.

I would have thought that since you have played the game for such a long time you would have a better understanding of different playing styles, different objectives, different player groups and different player ages - all of which can have a bearing on how you choose to play.

But NO, once again, I would not be here, even in this lag, still playing if my dared dissention to the "griefer love" was what It was being made out to be..lol

It's the strong impression you give with your own words rather than an implication just stumbled upon. Also the reason for my interjection, which tbh, given the strength of those views, was pointless.

Edit:
You also appear to have missed my retraction - or maybe just ignored it.

Oh please, farmville..lol. - SO no,I don't "Care" about those mechanics in the "let's play farmville" way people are claiming

I did actually apologise for the farmville reference:

@ Rhiannon - Sorry, I did actually mean it in the context I wrote it, I should have used a different example other than farmville, but what I meant was pve as opposed to pvp. - I guenuinely don't understand why a person would choose to play this type of game and then complain about the content. Why play pvp if you don't like those elements? - Is what I meant.

[Xcom]

I keep clicking on this thread to maybe read an update on Salem and how this open beta have led to havens development but each page leads to more and more bizarre discussions on game balance.

I might as well chip in. Making bears swim will be to hard to code. Easy fix would be to make him run off if the player was unreachable. By that I mean fix the existing code where he was supposed to run of when the player was unreachable. Otherwise its easy to simply place 4 stones and stand inside them then kill the bear with call down thunder / Opp knock / Punch.

To be honest the shear amount of small bugs and general UI fixes and tweaks are over 5 pages long. Discussing one silly bear aggro mechanics out of all the bugs and game fixes is oddly random out of all that.