Gondor - Proposal for a World Seven

[Yolan]

Ssssooo......this means you're gonna start it?

A kind of simplified, half brodgar, half gondor designed city? I guess I'd like to, but first I need to find a clay node, save up curios for trade and so on. Unless I get some donations I guess it might take me a while but what the hey.

[parisparisparis]

The plan is amazing i just wonder how would you handle cliffs. they are really random and can mess up the spiral-like plan.

[Yolan]

The plan is amazing i just wonder how would you handle cliffs. they are really random and can mess up the spiral-like plan.

True, but if we are already committed to using signposts for jumping over walls we can use them for jumping cliffs also.

[Flame]

but they can jump into the town if the wall is cutted by a cliff

[mvgulik]

Mmm ... Those numbers per ring go up pretty rapidly. (no need of course to fill them all with active used p-claims.)

[Yolan]

Once the numbers start to get pretty large you could expand the rings only partially at a go, for example one quarter.

Biggest security issue I can think of right now is mine holes dug by residents helping outside raiders. Not sure at this point how that could be dealt with.

[mvgulik]

Mmm.

I think you can block the creation of a minehole from above by putting some object(s) in its way. But that would mean you would have to, just about, clear/mine the whole lower level. (and probably re-create the main BW-layout on the top level in the mine to.)

O dear.

Once the numbers start to get pretty large you could expand the rings only partially at a go, for example one quarter.

Yep.

[_Gunnar]

Yeah, you'd have to dig out the whole undercity. Which rapidly becomes painful as the city grows... and that would also stop people from having their own mineholes.

[Vaku]

I recommend simply entitling the same plot space to an individual from the top down. Then, as people progress down, it would be their responsibility to keep their areas modular and walled off for their own home security, hire someone to make them a wall quickly, etc.

The security concerns needn't be so large in subterranean levels as the surface, for the reason that people cannot infiltrate a location by digging up.

Digging away a neighbor's subterranean level so they cannot dig down, I think ought to be socially reprehensible, and should be something we keep sacred to each other given that space would be so very limited. In that case, I feel that expanding outward, underground should result in a private deal for the immediately concerned parties. If the person in question has no neighbors to consult, I feel a simple donation to the town should suffice as well as a warning to all incoming neighbors, so that they're not given the chance to waste the resources and the space that a minehole consumes.

I can imagine now that for people who want to move vertically will come to value people who survey the natural and unnatural cave systems for premier locations.

[Yolan]

I'm not sure if you get what I was saying. Let's say somebody wants to raid the town, and has a friend on the inside. Unless we make city sized bwalls underground on each level, an insider can simply let people inside the town via underground.

Anyhow, even if it is a weakness it still takes more organization and mucking around on the part of the raiders, which means a lower death rate for everybody involved. You can't get down to zero when you are talking about a large scale town filled with noobish players that are only loosely affiliated.

EDIT: And Phaen has been kind enough to tell me of another method, which renders worrying about mine holes pointless. Basically, if a person in a village wants to let people in, they are going to get in, period.

So, what can be done about that? I think if you cannot hope to have a city which is both large, and secure, there is only one realistic approach, which is damage minimalization as I kind of mentioned above.

A few ways...

1. You are mildly careful with authing new people. Of course, if you are too strict it undermines the whole idea of a large 'open' city anyhow.
2. Crossroads run only from the idol compound, to the outside, and from each burrow, to the outside. That means people -must- keep their hearth fire inside their own burrow to maintain access, unless they have a gated mine hole and don't mind wandering outside with their own key. A burrow would be one, a half, or a quarter of a ring, depending on the size I suppose. Anyhow, this means that a bad apple can only help raid one burrow, and if those are kept relatively small (i.e. a half dozen plots) then the damage is reduced.

I think there is a tipping point here too, where if the village feels more stable over time you might get more bwalls on plots, which also makes infiltration less helpful.

The down side to this is that people cant easily walk to eachothers homes to carry stuff, chat, help out, whatever, unless they live in the same burrow. However, you might end up with some nice little Burrow centric communities where people get to know, and hopefully trust eachother. Also, the whole town can still get together for talk and trade in the vidol square, or outside the town for hunting and what not. The underground level also could be an easy place for friends to commute between eachothers plots.