Salem: 0 \ Haven: 1

[g1real]

I'm spouting one-liners because I just have no clue where to start a proper argument, since your view on both games' combat systems is just plain wrong through and through. People who have done extensive testing of Salem's PvP, like Darnok or Mushibag, all agree that it's all about the humour level there. Conversely, in Haven you have people like Vigilance consistently beating the crap out of people with higher stats. True, a big part of it was hitting people on the move, but even with the recent movement combat nerf a more skilled player will beat a less skilled one even if the less skilled one has twice as much UA.

If other more experienced sources say it's about humours, I can't really argue that; I'll fall back that I've enjoyed salem's combat more because I felt it more reactive with the addition of positioning and hitboxes.

Your last sentence though, which of the two games are you talking about?

[Potjeh]

Haven, obviously.

[Sevenless]

It's entirely possible to enjoy the combat system on a casual basis. It's not bad for that really, but it doesn't have a high enough skill cap. You can be about as good as you're gonna get in salem after a couple weeks of hard practice.

In haven it takes months to reach your potential.

[Ninijutsu]

It's entirely possible to enjoy the combat system on a casual basis. It's not bad for that really, but it doesn't have a high enough skill cap. You can be about as good as you're gonna get in salem after a couple weeks of hard practice.

In haven it takes months to reach your potential.

Yet there is still a skill ceiling that is relatively easy to hit with a few months of casual practice and training.

[g1real]

It's entirely possible to enjoy the combat system on a casual basis. It's not bad for that really, but it doesn't have a high enough skill cap. You can be about as good as you're gonna get in salem after a couple weeks of hard practice.

In haven it takes months to reach your potential.

Is that because of how complex the combat is or how big of a ceiling stats are

[Sevenless]

Yet there is still a skill ceiling that is relatively easy to hit with a few months of casual practice and training.

Honestly that's the best you can really expect. Haven is permadeath, and it has a lot of other grindy activities that take up your time. If you make the skill cap more along the lines of something like a MOBA game, pvp would be horrendously unfair to new players. More so than it already is by miles. And in a permadeath game you gotta give your noobs a fighting chance or the game is gonna kill itself. In fact haven does that all the time already, the difference is the game is so good that it brings in new people by word of mouth and draws old rage quitters back after a time.

Is that because of how complex the combat is or how big of a ceiling stats are

We're talking about skill cap. Nothing to do with stats. So long as you're fighting a similar stated character it's a skill difference on who wins not a stat difference. And there isn't much depth of said skill difference. I was playing with very intense pvpers and they all hated the system because of how boring it was. And yes, they ground their characters appropriately.

[Sleep]

Salem really felt more grindy than haven to me, and the combat being shifted from "HELP IM BEING KILLED BY ANTS" turned into "HELP IM BEING KILLED BY EVERYTHING THAT MOVES"

[g1real]

Honestly that's the best you can really expect. Haven is permadeath, and it has a lot of other grindy activities that take up your time. If you make the skill cap more along the lines of something like a MOBA game, pvp would be horrendously unfair to new players. More so than it already is by miles. And in a permadeath game you gotta give your noobs a fighting chance or the game is gonna kill itself. In fact haven does that all the time already, the difference is the game is so good that it brings in new people by word of mouth and draws old rage quitters back after a time.

Where are you going with this? Why are you comparing everything so wrong constantly.

Noobs don't have a fighting chance, stop fooling yourself. Not only are they less experienced but they're also far behind on stats due to the time. Especially more so on fresh starts of worlds where they don't know how to start efficiently and the pros do. So they have a double advantage.

We're talking about skill cap. Nothing to do with stats. So long as you're fighting a similar stated character it's a skill difference on who wins not a stat difference. And there isn't much depth of said skill difference. I was playing with very intense pvpers and they all hated the system because of how boring it was. And yes, they ground their characters appropriately.

I was referring to haven's ceiling you oh so worship as super tough. I'm not sure if you are referring to it now, you need to say that. So do I for that matter.

Salem really felt more grindy than haven to me, and the combat being shifted from "HELP IM BEING KILLED BY ANTS" turned into "HELP IM BEING KILLED BY EVERYTHING THAT MOVES"

What? I've never once had that problem, animals were easy to avoid and easy to engage when I wanted to. Only snakes were ever a looming threat and only when I was careless.

[Projeear]

Went through seven pages of Bullshit, looking for Jorbtar's backhand.

[Tonkyhonk]

-snip-

i think a big difference there is that you are talking about PvE, and others against you are talking about PvP.