Philosophy, emotional investment and Questions that arise

[Krantarin]

OK, I'm not really playing the game much anymore, but I can't help but say it: I <3 Jorb.

[theTrav]

her best soldiers, her brightest weapons? arguments pro nuclear bomb gives me the creeps.

If you don't see the bombings as justified you are a baby and need a bigger worldview.

Wow, you sir, are obviously a champion mass debater, I don't know how anyone could withstand such an accurate and well reasoned speech as that.

I would however venture the counter head, that you yourself are a poo head and should shut up... Which I think is on a level with your previous argument.

[RiverPhoenix]

hence the reason the USA's atom bombing of Japanese cities being quite so grossly appalling

Because, obviously, invading Japan and fighting street to street, hill to hill and city to city across the country using conventional weapons (as happened in Europe) would have been that much more humane? I for one am glad that America won the war, and that she didn't sacrifice her best and brightest in a pointless and avoidable invasion of mainland Japan.

America -- Fuck Yeah!

And if they taught you any history that wasn't hugely propaganda at your school you might know that they had already given up and that their surrender was already enroute... once you destroy someone's navy and airforce and most of their army why both continuing to fight? Because you want to enslave them? Then why did you bother abolishing slavery?

Humans; a mass of contradictions, all alike *sigh*

River

[Potjeh]

If Germany offered to surrender on the terms they get to keep the Nazi party and Hitler as their fuerher, would it have been right to accept?

[RiverPhoenix]

If you can produce arguments to justify the atomic bombings of any human city I would say that the chances are very great that I can use those same arguements to justify the ramming of the World Trade Center Towers with airplanes.

Devil's Advocate

P.S. And for those who care to troll you might like to note (fat chance) that I don't condone either, neither do I condemn either. Throw your toys out of pram if you like but you're just proving you're human and prone to err.

[Potjeh]

I'm just saying that Japan wasn't nuked to "enslave it", as you say. There were some very real dangers in letting them keep their war-criminal regime. And that's the only surrender Japan offered. They were given a chance for unconditional surrender, and they refused.

[Junkfist2]

And for those who care to troll you might like to note (fat chance) that I don't condone either, neither do I condemn either.

Passive Aggressive Moral Relativity is the biggest trolling in the history of trolling. It doesn't make you Obi-Wan, it just makes you a whiny pussy.

P.S. From what I understand this all got started by some retard who tried to fight over a dozen dudes with arrows by fighting the guy in plate before dying.

[Krantarin]

I think it's really funny that the thread I started has moved in this direction, but I actually prefer this topic (maybe I should start a history discussion thread ). ... One of my favorite things to do is to post an idea and let it sit for a few days and see where it goes...

On the topic of Nukes... I find it quite hard to condone the bombing of Nagasaki, although I would argue that the use of "Little Boy" on Hiroshima was almost warranted.

I wonder how much USA propaganda Jorb and Loftar are getting in Sweden . As for here in the US, I can tell you for sure that my APUSH teacher was a hippie communist feminist just out of college (she was by far my favorite teacher, but closer to the norm at my suburban high school than you would expect) and our books were pretty well unbiased.

hence the reason the USA's atom bombing of Japanese cities being quite so grossly appalling

Because, obviously, invading Japan and fighting street to street, hill to hill and city to city across the country using conventional weapons (as happened in Europe) would have been that much more humane? I for one am glad that America won the war, and that she didn't sacrifice her best and brightest in a pointless and avoidable invasion of mainland Japan.

America -- Fuck Yeah!

And if they taught you any history that wasn't hugely propaganda at your school you might know that they had already given up and that their surrender was already enroute... once you destroy someone's navy and airforce and most of their army why both continuing to fight? Because you want to enslave them? Then why did you bother abolishing slavery?

Humans; a mass of contradictions, all alike *sigh*

River

I'll concede most of your point, but the limited amount that you're stating makes it sound very much like propaganda to me, as well. Imperial Japanese Government had repeatedly stated its intent to fight on to the bitter end.

We can no longer direct the war with any hope of success. The only course left is for Japan's one hundred million people to sacrifice their lives by charging the enemy to make them lose the will to fight.

Ever heard of "Operation Ketsu-Go?"

Either way, the Japanese Government, and even the people were quite divided and many factions continued to fight after the bombing anyway (specifically outposts far from Japan).

My beliefs are largely anti-war and pacifistic but in certain cases we shift our ideals to a slightly more utilitarian end and pick the lesser of two evils.

NOTE: Utilitarianism does NOT justify nazism. Their twisted minds caused them to fail at their own philosophical math-the murder of millions A: does not protect or help anyone. And B: must be taken into account when calculating overall loss and gain. Oh, and C: Really just brought upon the destruction of their government and culture in the end, causing a huge deficit of lives, happiness, and overall wellbeing.

Junkfist beat me to the punch, but I'll point out that Cor was wearing Plate, had steel weaponry, and was as Powerful as a person who plays constantly for two months without cheating should be (the Goon Army has used questionable means to level up, and had they not, Cor should have been able to take on all of them easily. Not only that, it was essentially a laid trap. You don't bring six powerful and armed grinders/macro users just to steal.

[Junkfist2]

How many people, and of what comparative strength, should a "legitimate" player be able to fight at once?

[Jackard]

goku vs china