enough is enough

[kobnach]

I used to do that to get free items. Do I have a psychological problem, or am I simply taking the advantage that a good portion of males on the internet like to hit/flirt on girl characters and give them free items because they want to get on there good side?

I think its smart, used to do it on many games before

You are taking advantage of people and toying with emotions. You may think it is smart, but most people would recognize it as pretty immoral.

I dunno, it shows he is lazy, and doesn't care whether his achievements are his own. But it's no worse than the males who persistently hit on female players, just because they've been fool enough to be honest about their RL genders. As far as I know, _most_ players of female characters are RL males, and 50% of the remainder are people playing their very first on line character.

And yes, I'm sick. I get a kick out of homophobic and/or desperate-for-any-girlfriend males hitting on gender bending fellow males. They get so terribly upset when they find out the player's real gender.

[holychicken]

Internet.

You do know that you are taking advantage of real people and not the internet, right? You are exploiting a real emotion and you know it and that is why you know it works. So you can try and justify it by saying "lulz, it's just teh interwebs!" but that doesn't free the interactions of real emotion.

Personally, I have slept with two women, one of which I dated for a significant amount of time, whom I met and flirted with online. We developed a relationship. A real one. On the internet. So stop lying to yourself.

I dunno, it shows he is lazy, and doesn't care whether his achievements are his own. But it's no worse than the males who persistently hit on female players, just because they've been fool enough to be honest about their RL genders. As far as I know, _most_ players of female characters are RL males, and 50% of the remainder are people playing their very first on line character.

And yes, I'm sick. I get a kick out of homophobic and/or desperate-for-any-girlfriend males hitting on gender bending fellow males. They get so terribly upset when they find out the player's real gender.

I honestly don't see intentionally taking advantage of people and toying with their emotions is "no worse" than simply being naive.

I tend to play female characters, as I would rather look at a female than a male while I am playing, and I can't tell you how many times I have been hit on by a guy. I quickly correct them and honestly can't see how people aren't disgusted with themselves stringing these people along to get something out of them. It's immoral, plain and simple.

[eql]

Personally, I have slept with two women.

[Raephire]

Internet.

You do know that you are taking advantage of real people and not the internet, right? You are exploiting a real emotion and you know it and that is why you know it works. So you can try and justify it by saying "lulz, it's just teh interwebs!" but that doesn't free the interactions of real emotion.

Personally, I have slept with two women, one of which I dated for a significant amount of time, whom I met and flirted with online. We developed a relationship. A real one. On the internet. So stop lying to yourself.

I dunno, it shows he is lazy, and doesn't care whether his achievements are his own. But it's no worse than the males who persistently hit on female players, just because they've been fool enough to be honest about their RL genders. As far as I know, _most_ players of female characters are RL males, and 50% of the remainder are people playing their very first on line character.

And yes, I'm sick. I get a kick out of homophobic and/or desperate-for-any-girlfriend males hitting on gender bending fellow males. They get so terribly upset when they find out the player's real gender.

I honestly don't see intentionally taking advantage of people and toying with their emotions is "no worse" than simply being naive.

I tend to play female characters, as I would rather look at a female than a male while I am playing, and I can't tell you how many times I have been hit on by a guy. I quickly correct them and honestly can't see how people aren't disgusted with themselves stringing these people along to get something out of them. It's immoral, plain and simple.

They don't give a shit. Don't bother.

[kobnach]

I dunno, it shows he is lazy, and doesn't care whether his achievements are his own. But it's no worse than the males who persistently hit on female players, just because they've been fool enough to be honest about their RL genders. As far as I know, _most_ players of female characters are RL males, and 50% of the remainder are people playing their very first on line character.

And yes, I'm sick. I get a kick out of homophobic and/or desperate-for-any-girlfriend males hitting on gender bending fellow males. They get so terribly upset when they find out the player's real gender.

I honestly don't see intentionally taking advantage of people and toying with their emotions is "no worse" than simply being naive.

I tend to play female characters, as I would rather look at a female than a male while I am playing, and I can't tell you how many times I have been hit on by a guy. I quickly correct them and honestly can't see how people aren't disgusted with themselves stringing these people along to get something out of them. It's immoral, plain and simple.

Hmm, talk to some real women some day - the fairly large subset that are here to play a game, not to be hit on incessantly by over sexed 14 year olds. What I hear is a lot of complaints about harassment by assholes who just won't leave them alone. A few rather like the attention, but at least as many would happily castrate the next half dozen people to hit on them ;_(

To get an idea of the emotional impact, imagine that you are, in the opinion of the average gay gentleman, the hottest looking piece of ass in 7 counties - and every second guy you meet really hopes you'll consider _him_ for an immediate romp, a long term relationship, or anything else - or simply enjoys your presence inordinately.

Metaphors aside, a lot of female players experience the kind of treatment the OP likes (being profitable for him) as pretty much equivalent to sexual harassment, even when all the interested males are polite and reasonable - simply because there are generally far too many of them. Add to this the problem of jerks who are anything other than polite and reasonable - and you have the twin phenomena of women pretending to be male (to get left in peace) and males pretending to be female (to get given gifts by hopeful naifs).

[StewineBeef]

Not using Internet as an excuse, using it as a "What do you expect?".

I know they are real people however what is the purpose of playing a game? To win. Ill do anything I can to win except for breaking rules. Posing as a female is not breaking rules. Also playing the game is like signing an invisible contract. You agree that the people you might interact with could take advantage of you. This goes the same for real life.

I have fun getting to the goal of the game.


Why you brought up sleeping with two woman? I have no idea. I would assume that you're implying I know nothing of woman going by what I do in a game or that relationships can happen over the internet which I have no doubt they can.

Why you brought up justifying? Probably that I should have explained more about the Internet comment however I assumed you would have realized that this is the Internet and this is a game, and what is the main purpose of a game (don't say having fun, that is what you gain from achieving the main purpose of a game)?

Why you told me to stop lying to myself? Didn't realize I was, all I know was I was taking advantage of someone in a game to get further ahead within the rules. Nothing personal, just business and I could care less about someones feelings over the Internet especially over a game.

Does that mean I go out of my way to ruin everyones gameplay and take advantage over everything? Nope.
Does that mean I am an emotionless bastard who cares nothing for anybody over the Internet/game? Nope.


I guess from your point of view I would look like I am trying to justify what I am doing however I am just explaining my way of thinking.

Also remember this one rule that you cannot break and this goes for real life to. For there to be a winner there must be a loser.

[kobnach]

Also remember this one rule that you cannot break and this goes for real life to. For there to be a winner there must be a loser.

Not true. I invite you to consider the artificial game "Prisoner's Dilemma" and associated research, as providing a simplistic example. In many situations you'll get much farther by cooperation than by direct competition. Cooperative strategies are vulnerable to freeloaders, but there are ways of handling that.

Taking this back to H&H - I can either share resources and abilities with my neighbours, or I can loot them. If I loot them I get a short term profit. Then they band together and kill me, loot me, hide their valuables, abandon the game, or some such - I'm left with no one to loot, doing all my own work, and not specialized appropriately to do _everything_ well. Sure, I may be ahead of my ex-neighbours - but we're all less well off than if we cooperated. And if they prove to be as effective aggressors as I am, I won't even be ahead.

[StewineBeef]

Also remember this one rule that you cannot break and this goes for real life to. For there to be a winner there must be a loser.

Not true. I invite you to consider the artificial game "Prisoner's Dilemma" and associated research, as providing a simplistic example. In many situations you'll get much farther by cooperation than by direct competition. Cooperative strategies are vulnerable to freeloaders, but there are ways of handling that.

It was an interesting read however there are some problems. This game if applied to a real life situation would still result in a winner and a loser (The G-Men also count in a real life situation) however as a game I cannot poke holes in that current rule set and situation. Its set up that way .

However it is an artificial game. See if this was a real game or could be put in a real situation that excluded everything but the rules and the rules alone then yes that would break the rule. However it doesn't happen in real life as you have two kinds of people. Selfish and not selfish, you fall in one of these two category's of lots of category's that make up a person. This is one of them. Also there are other factors and other people in real life.

Regardless however in a real game the main enemy would be the people trying to put you in jail, the person however that could affect that outcome would be the other person. So either both players win and G-man loses, or both players lose and G-man wins, or G-man wins, one person wins and other person loses.

"Artificial game" was the only problem in that good example. If it wasn't artificial then you would have beat me with that .

Taking this back to H&H - I can either share resources and abilities with my neighbours, or I can loot them. If I loot them I get a short term profit. Then they band together and kill me, loot me, hide their valuables, abandon the game, or some such - I'm left with no one to loot, doing all my own work, and not specialized appropriately to do _everything_ well. Sure, I may be ahead of my ex-neighbours - but we're all less well off than if we cooperated. And if they prove to be as effective aggressors as I am, I won't even be ahead.

"Therefore, Axelrod reached the oxymoronic-sounding conclusion that selfish individuals for their own selfish good will tend to be nice and forgiving and non-envious."

You could share your resources with them and be selfish expecting to call back that favor in such a way as to come ahead of the people you are sharing with. They could refuse to help you which makes you a loser and them a winner, or you could manipulate it in such a way that you come out the winner and them the loser. That is what I would do. As long as the person trying to come ahead of everyone else thinks about it then they can by still having the others as losers but they are either unaware of it or are ok with the outcome.



I do enjoy your way of thinking, that Prisoner's Dilemma had me really stumped for a bit.

[kimya]

this is probably the most interesting thread so far.

[holychicken]

kobnach,

I understand that women get harassed by teenagers who do not know any better. I am not denying that. I just don't see intentionally taking advantage of someone's emotions as something that is even remotely as bad as being stupid youngster who can't take a hint. If we are talking about men who harass women even after they have been clearly told to stop, I agree with you, it is as bad, or at least around as bad.

stewinbeef,

I did not say you broke any rules or anything. What I said was that what you admit to doing is immoral and you know it. You can say you "have fun" but I know plenty of ways to stomp on other people to have fun.

I am a live and let live type of person. Do what you want as long as you aren't stepping on anyone's toes. But you are messing with emotions, which is a dangerous thing.

A couple of more things, I didn't bring up the women to imply anything about you, but to show to you how real relationships form on the internet. You can continue to turn a blind eye and say "anything to win!" even if it is just a game and even if it means stomping on some poor kid's emotions, but that will never change what you are actually doing.

And make no mistake about it, you ARE justifying.

"Also remember this one rule that you cannot break and this goes for real life to. For there to be a winner there must be a loser."

Pure nonsense, BTW. It is true when talking about competition, but it is far from true overall. Ever hear "a rising tide raises all ships?"