Haven 2.0: "Hafen"

[TeckXKnight]

Nobody learns how to play this game, they only study the wiki and follow what it says. There is no thought, effort, or challenge involved in playing this game. If you disagree, why not tell me about the things in this game that you think require thought and effort, the things that are challenging? Note that when I say "effort", it has to be something that you can't do while eating, texting, or sleeping.

The early game, with a few notable exceptions such as discovery, is very intuitive and conducive to exploration of your environment and experimentation with the tools you have available to you. For the early player, you learn that forests are dangerous, unaccommodating locations filled with wild animals and trees. Honestly, I'd go into more detail but most of the early game is actually pretty good for learning on your own and challenging yourself. You can opt to read a wiki, of course, but that's true for every game ever and will always be true. The first time you really hit an issue is when you build your first gate because it requires you to know that you have to pave in front of and behind the gate first. Learning how2combat also times a good deal of effort as you figure out how to properly use each skill and deduce combos and tricks.

Saying there's no skill or effort involved in combat is making a boastful and facetious statement. When taken to the extremes that you're discussing, such as a 1,500 UAC fighter punching a 25 UAC fighter, yes there is no longer skill involved. But as Potjeh has explained, as long as you can take at least one hit without losing your entire defense bar, then some skill can still come into play.

[Danno]

I agree the early game is golden, but within 2 weeks (for hardcore players) or 4-8 weeks (for casual players), you won't really learn anything or need to think anymore.

For your combat example, yes, you could potentially stand a chance if your defense bar isn't completely depleted in one hit - assuming your opponent literally has no idea about combat beyond pressing the "punch" button. For anyone with the slightest clue (e.g. knowing that the blue bar disappearing is bad), even if they're a total amateur, they will likely beat you regardless of your skill as long as they've got that high delta advantage.

In any case, as PvP is very rare, I maintain that there is no thought, effort, or challenge involved in playing after you've established yourself.

[borka]

The first time you really hit an issue is when you build your first gate because it requires you to know that you have to pave in front of and behind the gate first.

Not neccessary anymore (since W5 ?)

[TeckXKnight]

Oh really? I've continued to do it out of habit since w3. I had no idea that was no longer the case.

[McJager]

I wouldn't say pvp is very rare, It happens and it's probably not always posted on the forums, And I think the combat thing is the biggest issue most people have with Haven. But, Honestly it happens in any game with open world pvp. Nothing stopping the level 220 guy from coming to a newbie starter zone and roflstomping people unless it's dictated as none pvp. Which to me brings to mind sanctuaries or areas where pvp is restricted, Unsure how people would feel about a large area designated as a Bambi zone but it's a thought anyway. As to reading the Wiki and never learning on your own, I think that's a matter of opinion, A lot of new players don't even seem to realize there's a wiki.

[borka]

"Bambi Zone" or a second noPvP server has been suggested many times - but it prolly won't be HnH anymore (jorb stated their "no and why" somewhere in the forums)

in the Wikia you still see the Palisade gate paving struck out (sadly no history there to see when)

in RoB Wiki ApocalypsePlease edited it out in November 2011 because of http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/vie ... 17#p287509 thread where Tonky says it was changed mid W5 and Loftar told at channel
(last post in thread)

[McJager]

I was in no way suggesting we make HnH have a non-pvp server, Or bambi zone. Was merely stating what I've seen. Pvp is an essential part of HnH making any part safe would cause to much bitching to even be worth it. Honestly I'm used to seeing more corpses than living people and on the rare occasion I do happen along someone they either run or speak Russian. So you see, Taking out pvp would leave our landscape that much more barren.

[Duderock]

Honestly I'm used to seeing more corpses than living people and on the rare occasion I do happen along someone they either run or speak Russian. So you see, Taking out pvp would leave our landscape that much more barren.

Sorry, are you being sarcastic? Because pvp is precisely the reason you don't see anyone that often.

Not to say pvp is bad. But it's bad when coupled with perma-death and highly invested characters.

[McJager]

I'm actually surprised you're asking that, I'll leave it up to your imagination.

[ninja_yodeler]

Are you even playing the same game?

Nobody learns how to play this game, they only study the wiki and follow what it says. There is no thought, effort, or challenge involved in playing this game. If you disagree, why not tell me about the things in this game that you think require thought and effort, the things that are challenging? Note that when I say "effort", it has to be something that you can't do while eating, texting, or sleeping.

As tempting as it is to write "Are you even playing the same game" again, I'll make this quick while I have time.
1) Find me one aspect of any game that you can not eat or text while doing? That's just something you're choosing to do and nothing to do with gameplay?? If you're doing something like digging clay then sure you might be waiting. You ought to be on the look out for dangers or whatever, you might be mentally planning, you can run an alt and do something else. I've lived as a hermit, in low tier villages, in endgame villages and raider vaults and everything inbetween and in however many damn years I've been playing this game I've never once had a moment of just standing there going "Well there is absolutely nothing at all I could be doing I better just log off" The entire point of this survival mmo in a purely player driven world is that it is exactly that- player driven. Your thought, effort and challenge come from your own goals. You have no goals or nothing you want to do? Your problem =/=not the games fault.

2) If you're playing this while you're sleeping that, my friend, is just botting, and if you're bored and not using thought or effort in this game. That's probably the heart of your problem. But this isn't the place to discuss the merits of botting.

3) As for learning, You're learning every time you meet a new person, see a new village etc etc. Every person has a different playstyle and prioritizes things differently and I couldn't even begin to count the idea's and styles I have adopted in this game just because someone used them, to see if they were easier, harder, better to manage etc etc.
Just try new things. Build more villages, make roads between them, sell them to noobs or use them for your own amusement, create a whole city. Make a road stretching from one grid to another. Or Make a lot of penis mines. The point of this game is that you are meant to play your own goals. Put your own damn effort into what you want to happen. If you really think there is no thought, effort or challenge involved in this game, and those are dramatically important things to you that you're incapable of creating for yourself what on earth are you still doing here in the game about creating your own goals and working towards them?
Or have I missed the point of haven and this is just a combat sim after all? I have haven't I? Damn.
P.s apologies for long post.