PVP Factions

[FarmerJoe]

A ingame beginner tutorial where you learn the basic stuff would be really great. When you start playing the game, you don't really know what you have to do. Such a tutorial will help you to get into the game mechanics.

[jorb]

A ingame beginner tutorial where you learn the basic stuff would be really great. When you start playing the game, you don't really know what you have to do. Such a tutorial will help you to get into the game mechanics.

Don't I know it.

[Erik_the_Blue]

Secondly one thief can already break down a wall, pick things up and drop them outside of a claim for a horde of others to loot scent free.

That requires more effort from the original thief, and scales with the amount of stuff in the property and the amount of damage the thief wants to do. I'm also hoping that j&l eventually get around to addressing the issue of items inside containers that are stolen not being trackable.

[kobnach]

Starcraft remains one of the greatest games ever released, and maybe that was why I was so enormously disappointed with WoW. Underneath all those bells and whistles, WoW is a ghost world where nothing ever really changes. You move through the world, and it changes you, but you do not change it. Great way to make a man feel impotent. This game has largely grown out of that particular frustration, in fact.)

*rofl* Changing the world is nice - but if you want impotent, try being a player waiting for a map reset. Character resets would be even worse.

Also (hobby horse alert) try being repeatedly griefed or otherwise pvp'd upon, in such a way that little or none of one's work remains - and a restart is pointless, due to the risk of repetitions approaching unity. Hell, the best way to have one's work be sure to survive is to commit massive deforestation, even now. (Except for the map reset.) Even better if you also dig up the forest and make it barrens/potential grassland.

[Junkfist2]

Secondly one thief can already break down a wall, pick things up and drop them outside of a claim for a horde of others to loot scent free.

That requires more effort from the original thief, and scales with the amount of stuff in the property and the amount of damage the thief wants to do.

What? I don't understand.

[Erik_the_Blue]

Destroying something (like a claim post) only requires the player to tell the character to drink tea and go back to destroying on occasion. It's not that difficult to do this while multi-tasking (i.e. reading a website). Once the claim is destroyed, all objects on that claim are now un-claimed and easily accessible to everyone. The thief can now leave.

Moving things off of a claim requires the player to tell the character to go back and forth, picking things up and dropping them, all while navigating around obstacles on the claim. This requires more attention (and mouse-clicks) on the part of the player, and so is harder to do while multi-tasking. Only an object off the claim is easily accessible to others, so the thief has to repeat the actions for each and every object on the claim to achieve the same level of success as in destroying the claim. Thus, the more objects on the claim, the more effort the thief has to go through.

It's like how many people prefer to eat foods that aren't apples; the more actions and attention required on the part of the player, the more tedious that activity is and the less likely players are to engage in it. It may be faster to pick apples than it is to produce more filling food, but many prefer the less tedious activities over the less time-consuming ones.

[Jackard]

i hope claims arent made destructible, that would reduce the issue of theft to brute force. one juggernaut goes in, destroys wall and claim, everyone else follows

remdering claims impotent over a set amount of time not logged in sounds interesting - not decaying, but no longer having any effect. "ghost claims"

you can still remove claims with authority ofc

[Junkfist2]

Ah yes, the labours of navigating around obstacles and going back and forth. (i.e. this entire game)

Picking up chests and crap and dumping it all outside of a single claim doesn't take much time at all. A few minutes maybe. That those minutes are taken up by mouseclicking doesn't make it any less trivial. How you would view looting shit as more tedious than breaking down a brick wall, however, I have no idea.

As to reducing theft to brute force, theft *is* brute force at the moment. There's no other way to break down a wall and stealth is all but broken last I've heard. Regardless, taking out claims wouldn't need to rely on strength. It could rely on charisma. It could rely on a new point-based "razing" skill. It could rely on five players with torches. It could rely on an expensive-to-create alchemical bomb thing. It could rely on rubbing 500 fish on the post so it gets mauled into splinters by a rampaging horde of bears. It could rely on something or anything besides strength.

Moreover, everything on the claim could be splashed with a "theft" scent upon destruction of the claim, as its all the fruits of brigandry anyway.

[Erik_the_Blue]

Picking up chests and crap and dumping it all outside of a single claim doesn't take much time at all. A few minutes maybe. That those minutes are taken up by mouseclicking doesn't make it any less trivial. How you would view looting shit as more tedious than breaking down a brick wall, however, I have no idea.

You ignored the multi-tasking part. If someone doesn't multi-task, then yes, faster is better.

[Junkfist2]

You ignored the multi-tasking part. If someone doesn't multi-task, then yes, faster is better.

Huh? Looting's fun. Why would I be multitasking while I'm having fun?

Moreover in the case of a hypothetical destroy claim action why would I be multitasking when I'm doing incredibly dangerous shit that makes noise and could get me killed?