Debate about RMT in Haven and Hearth

[rye130]

I understood what you meant by sweatshop and I don't think professionals at selling ingame items would come to this game because its not big enough nor stable enough, like I said before. Why bother with this game when they can make more money in games like World of Warcraft or by just having an actual job?

that is called an assumption. you are being naive.
do you think the competition of goldfarmers on WoW is easier to earn money when they always have the risk of bans?

WoW was just an example. There are plenty of free to play games with larger player bases that aren't in alpha's and unstable like this one.

[Patchouli_Knowledge]

Is it not that the reason why the gold farmers within retail MMO have a more problems due to the fact that the gold farmers themselves draw money from their potential money pool from customers, particularly those that have item malls where gold farmers are directly stealing business from the creators. Even those that are pay to play without item malls forbid it as well; I suspect it may cause them to play less to "grind" certain items or achieve a level.

One of the exceptions of this I know of this is Kingdom of Loathing which takes some rather unorthodox method in this approach. From what I know, Jicks is indifferent about RMT in Kingdom of Loathing (legal wise at least). In addition, his item mall items are easily purchasable with meat with some effort unless they are no longer sold due to the event ending (ex. Ninja Pirate Zombie Robot parts) which makes it harder but not impossible. The value of the item mall is also subjected to the value of the economy of the game itself as well.

Now there is a large reason why trade (not just RMT) in these games are successful, they have a mechanics that allows simultaneous exchange, that is both items are given to each other at the same times preventing most scamming by demanding for the victim to give the items to them first, then running away without honoring the deal. Haven and Hearth does not have that secure method of exchange. In fact, it is the opposite where their only means of exchanging items, the barter stand, can be nullified by in-game feature of theft and even vandalism which unfortunately renders the barter stand almost useless for trade purposes. In Haven and Hearth, you have to trust the other person that they will honor the exchange and not commit foul play afterwards which much of it is establishing your credential through its community. In summary, it pretty puts the security of your item to trust which is not very secure unless you know them well. This is a large risk factor for actual money making it less ideal on the buying side.

Also, I would like to request to the moderator to change the title to: Debate about RMT in Haven and Hearth.

[DatOneGuy]

Also I assume professionals get their merchandise by using bots. So what is the real problem, paying real money for stuff or botting? I think botting is the bigger issue.

the real problem is, allowing those players and/or goldfarmers to prosper, who would basically never care about abusing any problems we have or game breaking events. the moral of the community will be lowered even more than what we have right here. more botting non-stop, more bug-abuse without reports, griefing for cash, which leads to more RMT to win, etc, etc.

They will find a way to prosper no matter what. I've done it before in several f2p Korean MMOs, you get some hacks, you set some bots up, and you go nuts, then you find a website buying Gold or something and you start selling it, or you start up your own with prices selling it.

The funny thing is when HnH gets big, or if it gets big if the client is open source like it is now it'll be laughable how hard RMT would hit it. Get a wrapper with admin features that can run 20+ clients at once, toss it on a server and you got yourself a nice little bot party.

Thinking that you should spend all your possible time to stop this 'problem' is even silier, because they will always overcome, there is always a way to do so and there is money in it for them and thus motivation, while there isn't for you stopping them, your only reason to do so is to please the "Oh boy I sure hate richfags" folk who play.

[Projeear]

You changed the thread name to lure me back into here, so you could gain views, hmm?

Well played, sir. Good day to you.

[SaintGilbert]

Hi looking to buy some q80+ clay and curios for real money. I can pay with paypal or possibly buy you steam items and gift them too you. Pm me and we can discuss a price. Or leave a reply in this thread. I might be interested in other items also would just depend.

I can't put into words exactly how silly of an idea this is.

Suppose you pay $10 for your clay and then someone comes by the next day and smashes your kiln and raids your village. What did you get for your $10? Nothing......
Purchasing items in a game where anyone can do anything to you is a baaaaad idea.

One could say the same thing about spending a dollar on an ice cream cone, or $20 on some fragile pottery or a lamp.

[Skorm]

[quote="Tonkyhonk]
i am switching my tactics depedning on whom im talking to.
with you, id better talk more about morality cause you seem to be another minor who dont understand real world yet.
[/quote]

lol[/quote][/quote]

Didn't even see that part. Just because I'm young doesn't mean I'm stupid. I didn't understand what you said because basically what I quoted wasn't even a sentence.[/quote]

The lol was to Tonky, because he/she is heavily underestimating you.

[Tonkyhonk]

Thinking that you should spend all your possible time to stop this 'problem' is even silier, because they will always overcome, there is always a way to do so and there is money in it for them and thus motivation, while there isn't for you stopping them, your only reason to do so is to please the "Oh boy I sure hate richfags" folk who play.

my only reason to do so would be to enjoy this game myself. where in the game can you find fun when you could buy up your power outside the game play? when devs accept RMT, then i just leave, that's it. not gonna waste and devote my time on it. i am only hoping this community isnt that idiotic yet to accept it.

see, while you blame all those russian raiders for mega-abusing bugs to win the game, here you are encouraging more of those who would even go further to win the game to come and prosper in their ways. enjoy your crooked logic.

rye,
so are you trying to say only a few of you earning money on this game wont hurt the game at all, huh?
btw, of course i meant WoW as just an example. i only brought that up since you mentioned it...

patchouli,
i dont give a damn about how developers feel about potential loss of money from RMT, even when its their main reason to stop it. i care about what matters the most to us players. and i care about the ignorant younglings who can be easily seduced to follow stupid methods adults shamelessly use.

[pickmonger]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqgZnvfJ9Jg

[DatOneGuy]

Thinking that you should spend all your possible time to stop this 'problem' is even silier, because they will always overcome, there is always a way to do so and there is money in it for them and thus motivation, while there isn't for you stopping them, your only reason to do so is to please the "Oh boy I sure hate richfags" folk who play.

my only reason to do so would be to enjoy this game myself. where in the game can you find fun when you could buy up your power outside the game play? when devs accept RMT, then i just leave, that's it. not gonna waste and devote my time on it. i am only hoping this community isnt that idiotic yet to accept it.

see, while you blame all those russian raiders for mega-abusing bugs to win the game, here you are encouraging more of those who would even go further to win the game to come and prosper in their ways. enjoy your crooked logic.

rye,
so are you trying to say only a few of you earning money on this game wont hurt the game at all, huh?
btw, of course i meant WoW as just an example. i only brought that up since you mentioned it...

patchouli,
i dont give a damn about how developers feel about potential loss of money from RMT, even when its their main reason to stop it. i care about what matters the most to us players. and i care about the ignorant younglings who can be easily seduced to follow stupid methods adults shamelessly use.

Some people IRL are born into money, some aren't.

Doesn't mean you're going to slash your wrists, and write to the national paper about this huge injustice.

Devs ain't accepting or not accepting anything, I don't know if you get this, you've been around long enough but the devs do NOT wish to spend time policing. What does that mean? It means that they solve their problems by mechanics, not by sitting on the forums and banning anyone using Walljumps, or vaults, or RMTing.

These people can't do much witht hese curios, what are they really buying here let's see? Our infrastructure? They're not exactly twisting our arms here, they're offering something we want. If you see it unfair to the rest of the player base, fuck the rest of the player base, every time you trade something that may be onesided do I consult the whole player base? No. As you said it's an alpha, oh man those guys why would this it's a terrible idea. Just because you wouldn't doesn't mean everyone shouldn't.

I think you also are putting rye a bit too down, he was a Sodomite W3 and he was very active, he's not some fag kid looking to spend all of his time selling stuff. For some people whether it's because they are young (please don't be discriminatory against age when making your arguments it's in poor taste), unable to find a job, unable to make money, enjoys making extra money by spending 2 fucking minutes in game, or whatever it is, that's between them and who they sell to.

It's not for you, me, or anyone else to butt into this situation and say something, this isn't exactly a game where you can just buy yourself to the top, unless you're buying accounts, you still need to study those curios, and unless it's pearls you're buying and it's a LOT of them, that will take you just as long as everyone else to study.

What really makes buying with money so dreadfullly unfair that it should be outlawed? Let's go over it point by point

[Tonkyhonk]

Devs ain't accepting or not accepting anything, I don't know if you get this, you've been around long enough but the devs do NOT wish to spend time policing. What does that mean? It means that they solve their problems by mechanics, not by sitting on the forums and banning anyone using Walljumps, or vaults, or RMTing.

as i said,

i am kinda sure that jorb and loftar would look at this as an interesting phenomena rather than an irritating one, though. but just like custome clients, bots and some minor bugs, i think they would not "officially approve" this even if they dont speak loud against this.

and i meant "accept" as "approve officially" to let mods clean such threads.

What really makes buying with money so dreadfullly unfair that it should be outlawed? Let's go over it point by point

do you really think drawing a line to which objects for "unfairness" would suffice? i doubt it.

as for rye, ive been reading the forums long enough to know who he is like, though i never knew him in game nor talked in person. the first thread i remember of his was about him getting shot in a dhelm as a hermit farmer and all. that said, i hardly choose whom to criticize, i am equally mean to everyone no matter what faction he/she belongs to.

now listen, i am even more frustrated to see that such players with recognitions on the forums, including you, keyn_thror, kLauE have been making all these posts, encouraging RMT whatever each intention is/was.

For some people whether it's because they are young (please don't be discriminatory against age when making your arguments it's in poor taste), unable to find a job, unable to make money, enjoys making extra money by spending 2 fucking minutes in game, or whatever it is, that's between them and who they sell to.

thats a total bullshit to me.