Haven 2.0: "Hafen"

[Oddity]

http://pastebin.com/Eu1fPMnX

Highlights:

(15:27:35) <Bergzwerg> so, we can expect hafen in 2015 or late 2014?
(15:27:45) <loftar> I hope 2014, for sure.
(15:27:49) <loftar> It's hard to predict, though.
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(15:30:13) <Bergzwerg> loftar, did you plan it like a minor update with new graphics at first?
(15:30:25) <loftar> http://www.havenandhearth.com/portal/media
(15:30:37) <loftar> No, at the very first I was simply planning to rewrite the server.
(15:30:46) <loftar> I was starting to plan this even before we started working on Salem.
(15:31:15) <loftar> Because of the new object system and everything.
(15:31:44) <loftar> And since I was planning to rewrite it anyway, we wanted to take the opportunity to revisit mechanics that we weren't happy with.
(15:31:52) <Deus> such as?
(15:32:32) <loftar> Well, more than any specifics, I'd say the biggest problem with the mechanics are that they are often very mechanistic.
(15:32:36) <loftar> If you catch my drift, though.
(15:32:47) <loftar> There's very little room for variety in the game.
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(15:39:09) <Deus> can you do somethign to foster good interaction
(15:39:41) <loftar> It's a hard problem, Deus.
(15:39:59) <loftar> I mean, one of the main problems is that a very large contingent of players look at the game mostly as if it were an MMORTS.
(15:40:02) <Deus> the hardest, but the most rewarding
(15:40:17) <Deus> yes they do and its a problem
(15:40:45) <Deus> perhaps the biggest problem
(15:41:02) <loftar> I won't deny that that fact interdepends with the game mechanics, however.
(15:41:51) <loftar> I think one of the problems related thereto is the fact that there's no real "end-game content" other than PvP.
(15:42:01) <loftar> And tbt I don't really know what to do about that.
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(16:16:28) <Bergzwerg> loftar, can you zoom in and rotate camera?
(16:17:52) <loftar> You can rotate the camera, yes. That's half the reason why we wanted 3D.
(16:18:02) <loftar> You *can* zoom in, but there's often little point to it.
(16:18:13) <loftar> And we've optimized all the graphics to be viewed in the zoomed-out state.
(16:18:26) <Bergzwerg> it's just rotation on one axis or both?
(16:19:04) <Bergzwerg> like only around z axis or around x/x too
(16:19:07) <loftar> Only one. It's not like you can actually see farther anyway.
(16:19:16) <loftar> So there'd be no point to "tilting it down".
(16:19:37) <Bergzwerg> loftar, but loading range is limited?
(16:19:44) <loftar> Just as it is in Haven, yes.
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(16:20:48) <deusm> a demo server would be sweet
(16:20:59) <deusm> im deus/mobile
(16:21:10) <loftar> Yes, we'll put one up as soon as the game is playable in any meaningful sense.
(16:21:49) <loftar> Well, I'd like to think we've kept most of the visual style of Haven, precisely because we also are nostalgic.
(16:21:55) <deusm> its not about playing haven 2, just about running anround and getting a feel for the camera
(16:22:37) <loftar> Well, sure, but right now you can't even create characters.
(16:22:49) <loftar> That's primarily what I meant by it not being playable at all.

[TeckXKnight]

All hail the Oddgod. Thanks for the transcription!

[DeadlyPencil]

yay new pictures!

[windmaker]

i claim a unban for LoW, bcs him is a protagonist in this God-Log D: <
#freelow

[Potjeh]

(15:39:09) <Deus> can you do somethign to foster good interaction
(15:39:41) <loftar> It's a hard problem, Deus.
(15:39:59) <loftar> I mean, one of the main problems is that a very large contingent of players look at the game mostly as if it were an MMORTS.
(15:40:02) <Deus> the hardest, but the most rewarding
(15:40:17) <Deus> yes they do and its a problem
(15:40:45) <Deus> perhaps the biggest problem
(15:41:02) <loftar> I won't deny that that fact interdepends with the game mechanics, however.
(15:41:51) <loftar> I think one of the problems related thereto is the fact that there's no real "end-game content" other than PvP.
(15:42:01) <loftar> And tbt I don't really know what to do about that.

That's an easy one. I thought the original vision of the game was as a social experiment of sorts, so just give us the tools for building societies. And yeah, it's *possible* to do it without those, but nobody wants to. It's because bureaucracy is a cornerstone of civilization, and nobody wants to be a virtual bureaucrat (it's mind-numbingly boring). Hell, the trend in the real world has been to delegate as much of that stuff as possible to computers, so why would we still have to do everything by hand in a game? Anyway, both the low level social interaction and the high level internal politics would provide plenty of non-repetitive endgame that isn't PvP in the strictest sense.

[Xcom]

Endgame content of haven is definitely not just pvp. The rare few players that enjoys that aspect of the game do it because the like it. Obviously you need to be sponsored by industry factions to make it happen regularly. The reason haven works is because the game is balanced around two main core aspects. Constant Q raise that inherently drives industry forward and never stagnates because of the non-ended nature and the second being the political mechanics defending resource nodes, industrial facilities and safe zones.

The two main issues are that you need to be in at it from the start and have enough people working in the Q race to even be able to compete in the later stages of the game. Even being behind the Q a few points makes you less desirable trade and other pvp areas.

Haven have plenty of endgame content to offer other then pure structured pvp content. Just a few examples are the Q rase, building and art work, exploration and rolleplay. The issue is that most of them are neglected and people have to use whats available. Artwork for example only have 4-5 colors to choose from, buildings are limited to brick walls and a few select other decorative options and Q rase is extremely linear creating both an impossible cat race where only the first in is the favored.

In Salem everything good about Havens endgame content that really works was ignored trying to rebuild on something new. I really hope Haven in its full glory is implemented directly into the next game and developed from that point onwards instead of a complete rewrite that risks losing the good aspects again similar to the Salem development. What Halfen needs is not a rewrite rather then development on what already works.

[Rador]

Endgame content of haven is definitely not just pvp. The rare few players that enjoys that aspect of the game do it because the like it. Obviously you need to be sponsored by industry factions to make it happen regularly. The reason haven works is because the game is balanced around two main core aspects. Constant Q raise that inherently drives industry forward and never stagnates because of the non-ended nature and the second being the political mechanics defending resource nodes, industrial facilities and safe zones.

The two main issues are that you need to be in at it from the start and have enough people working in the Q race to even be able to compete in the later stages of the game. Even being behind the Q a few points makes you less desirable trade and other pvp areas.

Haven have plenty of endgame content to offer other then pure structured pvp content. Just a few examples are the Q rase, building and art work, exploration and rolleplay. The issue is that most of them are neglected and people have to use whats available. Artwork for example only have 4-5 colors to choose from, buildings are limited to brick walls and a few select other decorative options and Q rase is extremely linear creating both an impossible cat race where only the first in is the favored.

In Salem everything good about Havens endgame content that really works was ignored trying to rebuild on something new. I really hope Haven in its full glory is implemented directly into the next game and developed from that point onwards instead of a complete rewrite that risks losing the good aspects again similar to the Salem development. What Halfen needs is not a rewrite rather then development on what already works.

I completly agree with you. PVP is what some people see as end game content. Others just like exploring, crafting, building, raising q, trade and so on. I dont get why only those get heard who shout loudest...

[dagrimreefah]

I dont get why only those get heard who shout loudest...

Because they're.... loud?

[SynthAura]

http://www.havenandhearth.com/portal/shots/119.png
Is that a triforce I spy in the menu?

[Oddity]

http://www.havenandhearth.com/portal/shots/119.png
Is that a triforce I spy in the menu?

It is, but it's just loftar's private cheat codes.