Haven 2.0: "Hafen"

[Xcom]

To put items into a signpost, you have them in your inventory and you build them in from there instead of loading the signpost to full and then building.

I thought this was a joke or just a temporary idea. Its probably the shittiest direction to take sign building, of all the directions, ideas and solutions.

Sadly they don't play there own game past hermiting to know what direction to take this game past that Q40 50x50 base.

[AAlex]

I came here for Stockpile.

Hi.

[Vill3]

More screenshots pls ;_;

[jordancoles]

Hi.

[Oddity]

loftar speaketh more (last night): http://pastebin.com/yzYDrtQT

Highlights:

(16:33:32) <loftar> Hmm, well, as for our current progress, we're on the verge of starting to implement a fighting system and a map generator.
(16:33:49) <deus> whats the fighting system?
(16:34:14) <loftar> There are still many details to hash out. We haven't yet started to implement it.
(16:34:16) <loftar> But we have some ideas.
(16:34:44) <deus> do you have a day job or do you only work on haven?
(16:34:46) <loftar> Sure, but then we weren't on the verge of implementing it.
(16:35:09) <loftar> I don't have an actual day job, but there is some amount of my time that is being spent on helping MM with Salem.
(16:35:24) <deus> paid?
(16:35:37) <loftar> Well, as part of the purchase agreement.
(16:38:05) <Bergzwerg> loftar, what about rpg elements? like stats and etc?
(16:38:46) <loftar> We did, Bergzwerg, but it's still an ongoing project, so there isn't a whole lot I can tell yet.
(16:39:51) <deus> do you ever feel like quitting indie games and getting a day job or startup?
(16:40:04) <loftar> We still don't have enough content to tie everything together in a way that makes me able to speak very usefully about the RPG elements.
(16:40:15) <loftar> Not for as long as I can possibly avoid it, deus.
(16:41:08) <Bergzwerg> loftar, btw, how is it with perfomance of the new client with fancy graphics/
(16:41:13) <Bergzwerg> did you test it?
(16:41:32) <loftar> Well, as usual, it's not like I have an extreme range of hardware to test it on.
(16:41:35) <loftar> It works well on my machine.
(16:41:42) <loftar> But then again, I have a GeForce 560.
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(16:45:15) <loftar> Also, it's still a bit too early to properly speak of graphics performance.
(16:45:32) <loftar> I still have it in my plans to implement instanced rendering, which I predict will speed it up quite a lot.
(16:46:00) <Bergzwerg> loftar, is map 3d?
(16:46:10) <loftar> I do have to say that if there's anything I've truly come to appreciate about writing the client in Java, it is that it makes it so easy to load external code.
(16:46:14) <Bergzwerg> in sense of underground
(16:46:21) <loftar> Of course, Bergzwerg, you've seen the hills in the screenshot, no?
(16:46:24) <loftar> Ah, right. No.
(16:47:04) <deus> whats new though?
(16:47:18) <deus> in terms of everything, not specifically haven related
(16:47:32) <loftar> Well, I started a little project to learn C++ more properly.
(16:47:40) <loftar> It has been quite... interesting.
(16:47:42) <deus> is it that different?
(16:47:48) <loftar> It deals my quite generous amounts of LP, I think.
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(16:49:33) <Bergzwerg> loftar, but main concepts like permadeath, all pvp, grind 24/7 or bot to win are still in place?
(16:50:00) <loftar> Naturally, we want to disincentivize botting to the greatest degree possible.
(16:50:17) <loftar> I think it's fair to say that most of the botting in Haven is due to more-or-less retarded mechanics.
(16:50:41) <loftar> And of course permadeath and PvP are retained. I hope you weren't hoping for anything else.
(16:51:46) <Bergzwerg> loftar, no npc then? besides animals?
(16:51:55) <Bergzwerg> because you have them in salem
(16:52:08) <loftar> I dunno. What would such NPCs be for?
(16:52:14) <loftar> I sure haven't got any plans for any.
(16:53:36) <Bergzwerg> loftar, are you still planing to allow shoot thro obstacles?
(16:53:47) <loftar> We haven't planned that far yet, Bergzwerg.
(16:54:00) <Bergzwerg> over obstacles?
(16:54:05) <loftar> Ranged combat is that which we have fleshed out the least yet.
(16:54:21) <loftar> But I *suspect*, based on some combat plans, that we won't have shoot-through obstacles.
(16:54:27) <loftar> That's not a promise, however.
(16:54:44) <Bergzwerg> how do I kill afk-farmer then
(16:54:53) <loftar> Yes, that's the problem, isn't it? ^^
(16:55:41) <loftar> As for those combat plans, the loose idea that we have is that movement should be incorporated into combat via some "action-point"-like system.
(16:55:59) <loftar> You know, like how some games have a pool of points that can be used either for combat moves or movement.
(16:56:19) <loftar> I'm still working on just how that should work, however.
(16:57:22) <Bergzwerg> I think there are should be more ways avoiding combat
(16:57:44) <loftar> Yes, I do have some loose plans for escape/pursuit as well.
(16:57:51) <loftar> Those are also not implemented yet, however.
(16:58:47) <Bergzwerg> loftar, does it relate for tracking?
(16:58:55) <loftar> It does not.
(16:59:06) <loftar> What gave you the idea that it would?
(16:59:18) <Bergzwerg> >pursuit
(16:59:36) <loftar> Well, you know, as in how you currently run away from a fight.
(16:59:43) <loftar> I don't see that being related to long-range tracking.
(17:00:59) <loftar> What are your implications from saying that, Bergzwerg?
(17:01:10) <loftar> Why do I get this nagging feeling that you want to be safe from PvP?
(17:01:35) <Bergzwerg> I dont, I would rather have more ways to escape than avoid
(17:01:47) <Bergzwerg> but just running away seems dumb
(17:01:58) <loftar> Well, how about that time when you're trying to seek revenge?
(17:02:07) <loftar> Would you want him to have the same abilities to flee?
(17:02:32) <deus_> or give a negative incentive to kill people
(17:02:35) <Bergzwerg> If I have more abilities to pursuit him, then yes
(17:02:44) <loftar> Does that change anything, then?
(17:03:01) <loftar> I mean, yes, I agree there should be more interesting mechanics to flight and pursuit.
(17:03:09) <Bergzwerg> depends on how you easy/costly you can get the ways to do so
(17:03:15) <loftar> As opposed to just "who carries the most water".
(17:04:10) <loftar> But already, we have drinking water stopping your current movement. ^^
(17:04:18) <loftar> So *that*, at least, isn't a problem. ^^
(17:05:01) <Bergzwerg> maybe some leather set or special boots would give you more running speed while less armor
(17:05:20) <Bergzwerg> or specific stat raising running speed and stamina
(17:05:26) <loftar> Well, such mechanics aren't very fun, Bergzwerg.
(17:05:38) <loftar> If one just runs strictly faster than the other, that gives a purely boolean mode of winning.
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(17:06:58) <loftar> Well, what I'm saying is mainly that there should be local and transient factors affecting speed.
(17:07:18) <loftar> Like whether you're running uphill or downhill, how much stamina you have left, your running patterns...
(17:07:29) <deus_> A*
(17:07:51) <loftar> *Given* such mechanics, smaller modifications based on equipment or stats are interesting as a bias in the system.
(17:08:01) <Bergzwerg> what about you can't swim in heavy armor?
(17:08:16) <loftar> The current pathfinding algorithm is already a modification of A*, deus_; why?
(17:08:44) <deus_> im saying players *could* pathfidn the fastest route
(17:08:53) <loftar> We already have plans for a couple of swimming-related mechanics.
(17:09:25) <loftar> Sure, but you would have an opportunity to fool your opponent into slower routes, deus_.
(17:09:37) <loftar> Given such mechanics, it becomes more of a strategy game.
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(17:15:03) <Bergzwerg> loftar, did you touch quality system yet?
(17:15:53) <loftar> We haven't yet started to implement quality, Bergzwerg, but we do have some ideas. I think it's fair to say that it is among the systems that are going to be most different from the current version of Haven.
(17:16:19) <Bergzwerg> loftar, but it's still grind and resourse based?
(17:17:48) <loftar> Of course quality is resource-based, Bergzwerg... whatever else would it be?
(17:17:55) <loftar> Seeing as how quality is an attribute of resources?
(17:18:45) <Bergzwerg> welp, I just meant it still should be something to grind or work to achieve
(17:18:55) <Bergzwerg> otherwise no new system would be better
(17:19:21) <loftar> In my mind, grind is not by definition a bad thing, Bergzwerg.
(17:19:23) <Bergzwerg> without natural competition for spots its not fun too
(17:19:30) <loftar> But pray tell, what is it that you imagine as an alternative?
(17:19:59) <Bergzwerg> I dont thing grind is bad at all
(17:22:40) <Bergzwerg> but making something less obvious or harder to achieve in some aspects, like not knowing every recipe, some secret techiques, some rare resources you have find first, upgrading system and etc
(17:22:53) <Bergzwerg> you should have not only grind but some depth too
(17:23:06) <Bergzwerg> current crafting is quite boring
(17:23:07) <loftar> Yes, the plans we have definitely includes such aspects, Bergzwerg.
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(17:26:47) <Bergzwerg> and current crafting is even more boring when you top it with almost best resources and then ore grinding is only left
(17:27:31) <Bergzwerg> wood and ore
(17:27:41) <Bergzwerg> its quite boring and lame
(17:29:04) <loftar> I'm not sure what you're trying to say in the end, Bergzwerg. If you're trying to convince me that Haven isn't perfect, there's really no need.
(17:29:33) <Bergzwerg> welp, since you never tell I dont reall know what you think or plan to do
(17:29:51) <Bergzwerg> you only tell you have some plans and etc
(17:31:06) <loftar> Well, what do you expect, then? That I should lay before you, here and now, the finished plan of what is becoming Hafen (only the mere inputting of code missing from it), so that you can evaluate it in its entirety?
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(17:35:01) <DDDsDD999> loftar, what plans do you have in Hafen for enforcing strong hatred between groups? Is there new and exciting ways I can convey to my enemies that they are sand niggers, and that they should go back to digging in the ground, so they can provide the deeper and more nutritious sand for their family to eat?
(17:35:31) <loftar> Haha
(17:35:50) <loftar> Yes, I feel very much that there is severely lacking from Haven more incentives and ways to gank each other over.
(17:36:08) <Bergzwerg> DDDsDD999, nobe, new haven should be multi-culture, feminism friendly community game
(17:36:10) <Bergzwerg> uwotm9
(17:36:14) <DDDsDD999> Thank you loftar, this was a great concern for me.

[jordancoles]

(17:35:01) <DDDsDD999> loftar, what plans do you have in Hafen for enforcing strong hatred between groups? Is there new and exciting ways I can convey to my enemies that they are sand niggers, and that they should go back to digging in the ground, so they can provide the deeper and more nutritious sand for their family to eat?

(17:35:50) <loftar> Yes

Ass Kraken always asking the tough questions that are on all of our minds

[TeckXKnight]

(17:35:01) <DDDsDD999> loftar, what plans do you have in Hafen for enforcing strong hatred between groups? Is there new and exciting ways I can convey to my enemies that they are sand niggers, and that they should go back to digging in the ground, so they can provide the deeper and more nutritious sand for their family to eat?

(17:35:50) <loftar> Yes

Ass Kraken always asking the tough questions that are on all of our minds

Okay, I laughed. Thank you for that.

I like the sound of the chase/escape game being mostly based on the environment but I think it's something that we'll have to wait and see about.
At some point I really want to prepare a solid argument on grind in response to JLo. While grind is not inherently bad, as it is just the repetitious act of performing a mechanic over time, it can be done in ways that, frankly, suck ass. What leads grind to 'suck ass' though?

[jordancoles]

(17:35:01) <DDDsDD999> loftar, what plans do you have in Hafen for enforcing strong hatred between groups? Is there new and exciting ways I can convey to my enemies that they are sand niggers, and that they should go back to digging in the ground, so they can provide the deeper and more nutritious sand for their family to eat?

(17:35:50) <loftar> Yes

Ass Kraken always asking the tough questions that are on all of our minds

Okay, I laughed. Thank you for that.

I like the sound of the chase/escape game being mostly based on the environment but I think it's something that we'll have to wait and see about.
At some point I really want to prepare a solid argument on grind in response to JLo. While grind is not inherently bad, as it is just the repetitious act of performing a mechanic over time, it can be done in ways that, frankly, suck ass. What leads grind to 'suck ass' though?

Jorb and Loftar's way of deterring bots is to simply add 50 fucking steps to everything that you want to do, and then they throw in some massive invisible collision boxes around things like ore boulders and boats in the hopes that people will either have too hard of a time making a reliable bot, or that they'll simply quit so that Loftar can spend his time altering the homepage in goddamn PEACE

[eliminoid]

where is dis chat located

[NOOBY93]

where is dis chat located

It's an IRC.
Should be this: irc.synirc.net/Haven
It's a boring chat where boring people say boring things, unless loftar jumps in, and I'm pretty sure these dedicated people stay online on it 24/7 with a notification telling them when loftar logs on, so you'll find the interesting stuff here on this forum.
On a side note, I wonder who still hosts the "ringofbrodgar.com". Don't think it's an official page.