Haven 2.0: "Hafen"

[Kaios]

Without the ability to port to village idol a whole heap of content is reduced

I really don't see how a "whole heap of content is reduced" merely through the removal of a very small facet of the game. Teleportation eases the processes the game takes you through, the way you say it you are implying its removal completely prevents you in performing certain tasks which I feel is totally untrue.

The key to making something like this work is transportation, but I don't mean simply modes of transportation. Making paths and roads (despite realism) should be faster or there needs to be some way to improve the efficiency in doing so. With features like this in place it would make utilizing wagons for example a much more common thing.

I can imagine a scenario, players building roadways for travel between their village and a resource, loading up their wagon with containers, one or two guys are driving and you've got some people in the back and some escorting you on horseback, going back and forth between the node collecting the resource. Is it as efficient as being able to teleport back? No of course it isn't, nor should it be.

When it comes to going to and from other villages, whether it's a raid or just a trip, I see them adding bigger ships and making travel by water the best way to get from Point A to Point B and back again. I can see how the removal of teleporting back would come as a hassle and having played Salem at least for a brief period I did find this very annoying. It's something they have to try though, I really think they do.

[Xcom]

Please don't tell me that you enjoy hauling. Noone in this game thinks hauling is an enjoyable chore. In theory its cool imagining a few people dragging bunch of chests forth and back using wagon but the second your one of the plebs doing the actual chore you realize how boring and grindy it really is.

Teleporting is a nice feature and should be kept in except it needs a balance tweak. It's one of unique endgame contents to try setup a vast crossroad network and control a larger area using it. Issue is how easy the current mechanics are on how far you can port and how easy villages can expand with the additional downfall of crossroad being able to connect between different villages.

Village idols are also the only way to trade legitimately. Local trade sounds fun and all but yet again breaks down when you realize that the game doesn't have to many people online at any given time. There isn't anything called local trading cause this isn't like EvE online where the population can keep trade alive in decentralized regions. Trading is a thing in the current game and if V-porting where to get removed would completely remove it.

This game lacks endgame content and village idols can directly be linked to a whole heap of features. Removing it will remove vast parts of said features and would cripple them to a halt. It also should be made clear that villages should really be made into a real endgame mechanic. It's probably to easy making village idols and could also be looked into to make it more difficult to build and maintain. What it shouldn't be is to get remove altogether.

[Kaios]

stuff

/sigh

Your biggest problem here is you are assuming things based on Haven's content which may or may not be true for 2.0 as well. Your point is really dumb, you are concerned about things like hauling logs or other things or trading goods with far off villages when in reality, the biggest concern about limiting or removing fast travel is the vast distance one might cross while out exploring and then are forced to make their way back.

THAT is the reason Loftar is considering including an option to go back. For example in Salem, you could port back to your leanto but only if your inventory was empty, the problem was you are forced to travel around quite some distance when you are foraging for goods and then you're forced to find your way back. The addition of the homestead pointer helped with this but I still found it annoying.

There are indeed ways to counteract this however, the biggest one of them being CONTENT. A vast world needs interesting content, otherwise there truly is no point in removing fast travel. Forcing a player to walk endlessly for hours looking at the exact same biomes with about a 0.1% chance of anything different or new happening/appearing is just poor gameplay.

To say that removing fast travel will REMOVE actual content or seriously calling it "end-game content" is absolutely retarded. A network of roads, paths, etc. is actual, interesting end-game content. Not a stick in the ground you right click and jump half-way across the world.

In fact, I would argue that the removal of fast travel deems for the addition of MORE content. The world needs to be interesting, but if it is players will have no problem travelling around. Creatures of the night, ancient ruins, other bullshit like that would all be cool to go out exploring to find or give you further incentive to create an extensive trade route.

[Xcom]

There are indeed ways to counteract this however, the biggest one of them being CONTENT. A vast world needs interesting content, otherwise there truly is no point in removing fast travel. Forcing a player to walk endlessly for hours looking at the exact same biomes with about a 0.1% chance of anything different or new happening/appearing is just poor gameplay.

This is exactly what will happen in Haven 2. Don't illude yourself of thinking that JnL will go out of there way adding ruins and shit so you can go explore it when your traveling the same route you walked the nth time getting to the outpost you built last week. We won't get super fancy worlds with detailed art and interactive spawn-able content where you seldom walk down the same route and find new things to explore every time. Its wishful thinking from a 1 man coding gig.

You haven't really thought it through. Content takes 100x longer to add then to explore so you often end up doing just that "walk endlessly for hours looking at the exact same biomes". Specially a game that is relying on the basis that every structure is player made.

Edit: Also paving roads is not interesting content. In fact this is the perfect example of how removal of crossroad and forcing players to pave roads incentivize botting above anything.

[Potjeh]

"walk endlessly for hours looking at the exact same biomes

This right here is a big problem with H&H and Salem. There's just no distinct geographical regions.

[banok]

actually exploring with salem canoe without teleportation wasn't so bad.

I mean you couldn't port back holding boat with containers inside, but you could move over land quickly unlike haven's boat - therefore you could travel in a set direction faster. if you mapped good water routes you could transport stuff.

I think teleportation is lazy game design. more transport options like horses would make a better game.

[Alubag]

Why do you people want to remove teleporting from this game? Do you have any argument except "realism"? I much appreciate being able to port back to my hearth fire after exploring far from home, if i had to walk all the way back, that would be a tedious chore. How would trading be done if there was no porting to village idols? Well, trading would be impossible except wth your nearest neighbours, people far-away might as well be on another server then, because you would never interact with them.

Who would seriously want to walk their character on a paved road for 30 minutes just to trade some pearls? Does that sound fun to anyone? Not to mention that suggestion some people have made, that you would have a chance to lose all your stuff if a brigand was waiting on the road. If that was the case, no one would trade. No one wants to risk losing all their stuff just like that, people would just stop trading. I've heard some really bad suggestions for this stuff.

[Tonkyhonk]

How would trading be done if there was no porting to village idols? Well, trading would be impossible except wth your nearest neighbours, people far-away might as well be on another server then, because you would never interact with them.

as a new player back in w3 and 4, i only traded with neighbors. a friend of mine boated 2 hrs for "sightseeing" to constantinople and enjoyed some shopping and some chaos and told us about his adventure with some souvenirs. fortunately we were close to buyan, and bottleneck had opened a dedicated semi-public market for the trusted neighbors where the high stat trusted vets also teleported in from all over the world and we hardly had problems with trading. also it was fun because traders had different prices and merchanting was a real skill back then. vidol teleport was possible then too but it was not really a common trade as it is now as it was not as easy to afford village authority for one person village. trading was more about interaction with other players in game than skype calling or pming outside the game.

i still mainly trade locally including trusted players by teleport, but hardly use forums for trade unless emergency because i realized its much less fun for me after doing some; the only benefit of forum trade was its convenience and *fixed* prices.
lets say, forum trade is like using amazon

[Jackard]

Why do you people want to remove teleporting from this game? Do you have any argument except "realism"?

It's nice for convenience - not everyone has the playtime or patience to go without teleportation - but in my opinion that convenience is outweighed by the number of exploits it creates.

I don't think they should remove it, Haven is sort of built around having teleportation, but we're not planning to have it in Dwell.

[DDDsDD999]

Why do you people want to remove teleporting from this game? Do you have any argument except "realism"?

B-buh my immurshion!

(Removing teleportation within haven in its current state without MAJOR changes would be a terrible idea.)