Haven 2.0: "Hafen"

[Potjeh]

There should be teleportation, but it shouldn't be so cheap and safe. It's supposed to be about skipping the tedium of walking over the same ground all the time, not about warping between walled villages and swamps and mountains with no regard for topography and dangers in between.

[banok]

Why do you people want to remove teleporting from this game? Do you have any argument except "realism"? I much appreciate being able to port back to my hearth fire after exploring far from home, if i had to walk all the way back, that would be a tedious chore. How would trading be done if there was no porting to village idols? Well, trading would be impossible except wth your nearest neighbours, people far-away might as well be on another server then, because you would never interact with them.

Who would seriously want to walk their character on a paved road for 30 minutes just to trade some pearls? Does that sound fun to anyone? Not to mention that suggestion some people have made, that you would have a chance to lose all your stuff if a brigand was waiting on the road. If that was the case, no one would trade. No one wants to risk losing all their stuff just like that, people would just stop trading. I've heard some really bad suggestions for this stuff.

I dont understand how you can think that way and even like these games. I could use the same arguments to remove every interesting feature of haven, and justify candyswipe as the best game ever made.

I _have_ enjoyed pvp mmos more that have very limited teleportation; world pvp best pvp. I _have_ carried valuebles to make risky trades and lost it all to brigands in other games, it can be fun and worth the risk. its all in good design.

[AnnaC]

I'm still somewhat for the general removal of teleportation but only after the crappy gate, wall and key mechanics have been addressed. Also improvements to long-range shipping of goods would be necessary.

One thing with Village Idol and Hearthfire teleportation, is it's the safest way to have a small newbie-friendly village that is accessible to casual players. They can have their little palisade settlements in the surrounding area and idol warp into the bricked village center with the village-public resources and gathering places. It would be practically impossible to have something like this with how the current gate and key mechanics work.

Jackard's idea of having the milestones be non-collision paved objects instead of the collision-prone pillars would be wonderful as well. Make physical roads more practical and efficient. (Edit: I mean the current milestones in-game that are never used for roads as nobody makes actual roads anymore.)

Edit: Also paving roads is not interesting content. In fact this is the perfect example of how removal of crossroad and forcing players to pave roads incentivize botting above anything

I appreciate the experiments you do and your efficiency toward the mechanistic portions of this game, but you often apply opinions that you consider to be universal in the community when they are not so (and they may not have even been a prominent consensus at one point in this game's lifetime).

There is more to road-building than just paving ground tiles. Exploring, surveying, plotting the path and learning about not only the destination but the trip, are important and fun aspects about this game, which is about crafting the inkling of civilization from a wild dangerous world. Road building probably still is my favorite aspect of the game.

Unfortunately the new community and political style makes building roads more risk than reward. I think the worst aspect is how prominent and far-reaching claims can be, especially how large a singular personal claim can get, and how common it is to see far-reaching swaths of statue corridors. How this sort of monopolized easily-claimed land management has become the norm makes building roads irrelevant unless you're a part of these factions and even then roads are not wanted. It's not even necessary to have roads when carrying buckets full of great water and can briskly frolic through every topography anyway.

[Xcom]

It would be a fun task building a road, paving and decorating and all that. But if I had to actually build that road just to go further down the forest so I had to haul more logs as trees became more scares over time during mining operations I would honestly not enjoy it. Neither would I enjoy spending hours just hauling logs to get to some mining. Some game mechanics like the example given would diminish the aspects of the game that really does feel would be lost without a village idol. A good example is brodgar this world with the idea of having to walk 30 min to cut and haul a tree.

I agree strongly with game mechanics that gives more versatility and variety of game content to as many players as possible. By that I do actually agree that the current teleport system needs to go to improve alot of the lost mechanics that infinite teleportation ruins. But I don't think it would benefit the game at all by removing the actual village porting mechanic completely.

The whole infinite teleportation would easily be resolved on forcing a maximum teleportation distance of less then lets say a supergrid. Teleport hotspots could also be fixed with adjustment of both upkeep price and cost of the idol itself. Its just silly to remove it completely. Anyone suggesting it honestly don't play haven for an extended period of time to experience the endgame grind. I think it was one of the mods that said it best, some grind is less enjoyable then others. Hauling is definitely on the down end of that list. Its just one of 4 or 5 aspects of endgame content village idols provide and would dearly be missed. But hay, lets just support the idea of its removal and quit the game when time comes for when mass hauling start to become a chore.

[Flame]

Is funny to come back for a jump and see that there are the same questions and doubts of years ago. XD

If i can say this in the simpliest way i can:
"If you want to remove/change an important feature, you first have to create an alternative and THEN remove the feature."

So horses, road systems and blahblahblah. BEFORE. Not "after, if we have time".

Never unmount a door thinking to paint it soon. My room is still waiting that door... removed 3 weeks ago. XD
Imho, if the game could give us all the mechanism that he have promised, teleportation could be almost useless.

But you all know that devs aren't used to "add and then remove", sadly, ya?

[Jackard]

"If you want to remove/change an important feature, you first have to create an alternative and THEN remove the feature." So horses, road systems and blahblahblah. BEFORE. Not "after, if we have time".

People have always said this.

[Jackard]

So here's a list of various methods for encouraging mundane travel before you decide to do whatever with teleportation:

• Easier to build milestones with no bounding box
• LP for exploration
• Marching bonus - no stamina drain for following milestones?
• Abstracted keys
• Directional and/or map-based automovement
• Players marking routes on maps, acts like milestones
• Bridges
• Larger Gates
• Faster stump removal
• Designations for roadbuilding http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5707
• Pack animals (i usually use alts for this but it gets annoying)
• Hidden caches http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=51480#p51480
• Queueing movement with waypoints
• Mounts

i listed mounts last because they are probably more work than all of the rest

[Flame]

People have always said this

That's why i laugh when i see, years later, people discuss the same things. Probably, the forum have said everything he could say, a long time ago.

[Jackard]

That's why i laugh when i see, years later, people discuss the same things.

Well, you don't see me discussing it anymore, do you

[Tonkyhonk]

People have always said this

That's why i laugh when i see, years later, people discuss the same things. Probably, the forum have said everything he could say, a long time ago.

believe it or not, quite a few that had been said in the past were implemented in salem in many ways, no matter whoever played it liked or not. but for some reason, many people just ignore what was done and go back to the old discussions to show you the same talk every time.