Haven 2.0: "Hafen"

[Flame]

By the way, i'm looking forward for this hafen, but 8# pages are quite a lot to read.
Does the dev sayd what's new on hafen? Some old suggestion that will be implemented or some new ones?

Just to know. I'm too lazy to read the whole topic.

[TeckXKnight]

By the way, i'm looking forward for this hafen, but 8# pages are quite a lot to read.
Does the dev sayd what's new on hafen? Some old suggestion that will be implemented or some new ones?

Just to know. I'm too lazy to read the whole topic.

Search for Oddity's posts in this thread to read the chats with loftar. =)

[Flame]

That's a good hint. ;3

[ddarongg]

Ohhhhhhh

[Oddity]

In the past few nights sometime:

(16:29:29) <TheMasterWolf> Anyone wish to give me a reason why this community has seemed to ruin this game?
(16:29:51) <TheMasterWolf> and why loftar or Jorb hasnt done shit about it?
(16:30:37) <loftar> Well, for one thing, I'm more interested in writing games than in managing communities. ^^
(16:31:19) <Bergzwerg> no one ruined game
(16:31:26) <Bergzwerg> it was stillborn at beginning
(16:31:28) <loftar> For another thing, I wouldn't really know what to do about it.
(16:31:56) <Bergzwerg> like many other sandbox mmos
(16:32:34) <TheMasterWolf> Idk Ban people like Frost who do nothing to help the community but be dicks to everyone
(16:32:35) <TheMasterWolf> ?
(16:33:18) <loftar> I don't know who this Frost is, but some amount of dickery is usually appropriate.
(16:33:48) <Bergzwerg> loftar, any progress on combat system?
(16:33:57) <loftar> Some.
(16:34:08) <loftar> I've reimplemented basic fighting relations and stuff.
(16:34:20) <loftar> It starts to get boring doing it for the third time. ^^
(16:36:08) <TheMasterWolf> Loftar frost is spawningmilk
(16:36:19) <loftar> That didn't really tell me any more.
(16:36:22) <TheMasterWolf> he is hated by 99% of the community
(16:37:40) <loftar> Or so you tell me.
(16:38:51) <Bergzwerg> loftar, have you played any tabletop games in the past?
(16:39:00) <Bergzwerg> like dnd, gurps?
(16:39:08) <loftar> Only very little.
(16:39:51) <loftar> Jorb has done it quite a bit, though.
(16:39:59) <loftar> Why?
(16:40:22) <Bergzwerg> you dont seem to get any insights from tabletop games tho
(16:41:13) <loftar> You speak as if there are any particular insights you would like us to get. ^^
(16:41:22) <Bergzwerg> welp, I just read gun-fu rulebook from gurps, and it basically shows how little realism can give for action
(16:42:22) <loftar> viewtopic.php?f=34&t=37586
(16:42:35) <loftar> To be fair, Wolf, it is you who rant on about details that he has no reason to care about and act generally butthurt.
(16:42:54) <TheMasterWolf> well yeah i play this game for fun
(16:43:08) <TheMasterWolf> but there are so many people who all they play is this
(16:43:20) <TheMasterWolf> and they just want to ruin other peoples fun
(16:43:35) <loftar> They also play the game for fun. ^^
(16:43:45) <Bergzwerg> play something else instead of permadeath mmo then
(16:43:56) <Bergzwerg> I personally like to ruin fun
(16:44:49) <loftar> I don't particularly like to ruin other peoples' fun, but this is a sandbox.
(16:45:19) <Bergzwerg> like, chivalry is far from realism of physics or human body
(16:45:28) <Bergzwerg> but it's much more fun to play than mount and blade
(16:45:37) <Bergzwerg> it could be just me
(16:45:51) <loftar> I don't understand what you just tried to say.
(16:45:55) <Bergzwerg> but statistics show otherwise
(16:46:06) <loftar> >chivalry is far from realism of physics or human body
(16:46:09) <loftar> What does this mean?
(16:46:17) <Bergzwerg> just an example
(16:46:28) <loftar> I can't even parse the sentence, though.
(16:46:38) <Bergzwerg> its a game
(16:46:44) <loftar> What is?
(16:46:47) <Bergzwerg> chivalry
(16:46:53) <loftar> Oh
(16:48:45) <Bergzwerg> I dont think I need to tell you how hnh combat predeterministic in most cases
(16:51:21) <loftar> What do you mean by "predeterministic", Bergzwerg?
(16:51:26) <loftar> As in, how much stats matter?
(16:51:36) <loftar> Or as in, how little randomness there is?
(16:51:45) <Bergzwerg> set of actions, result of most combat, variaty of actions
(16:52:04) <Bergzwerg> >set of actions
(16:52:19) <Bergzwerg> like you know what skills to use and in what order in most cases
(16:52:42) <loftar> Yes, that is one of the things that we very explicitly are working on to change in the new system.
(16:56:21) <loftar> What do you mean they do to make combat fun, though, was the question.
(16:56:25) <Bergzwerg> welp, you know there are quite few games inspired by tablettop games rules
(16:56:49) <deus> you mean d and d
(16:56:55) <Bergzwerg> I dont remember one which was bases on stat powerlvling
(16:56:59) <Bergzwerg> based*
(16:57:05) <Bergzwerg> not only dnd
(16:58:25) <loftar> Perhaps, but I do think it would be boring if stats didn't matter at all.
(16:58:33) <Bergzwerg> ofc
(16:58:43) <loftar> I mean, if you just want a statless game, you can go play any old shooter.
(16:58:47) <Rawrz> skip haven
(16:58:51) <Bergzwerg> that's why minmaxing exists
(16:58:53) <Rawrz> make a warhammer 40k based game
(16:59:22) <loftar> I don't know what minmaxing means in this context.
(17:00:27) <Rawrz> people like stats
(17:00:31) <Rawrz> it gives a sense of progress
(17:00:56) <loftar> Yes. Investing in one's character is fun.
(17:01:00) <Bergzwerg> welp, lp grinding before w5 was about sense of progress too
(17:01:05) <Bergzwerg> but I didnt mean stats dont matter
(17:01:38) <loftar> So what do you mean, then?
(17:03:08) <Bergzwerg> like, something what would make you think twice before investing in something? specialization, but in a greater sense than it's now
(17:03:26) <Rawrz> specializations are kind of lame
(17:03:32) <Rawrz> it just makes me juggle more than one character
(17:03:45) <Rawrz> the industry vs nature is killer enough for me
(17:03:59) <loftar> Yeah, that's a delicate question.
(17:04:14) <Rawrz> the only god send was that curios made having more than one guy easily accomplished
(17:04:31) <Rawrz> even when it came to salem
(17:04:36) <Rawrz> most people were just making more than one guy
(17:05:07) <Rawrz> all it does is make me make a spread sheet of accounts and password
(17:05:11) <Bergzwerg> I think several characters with different roles is better than one almighty
(17:05:36) <loftar> I do actually agree that there is some case to be made.
(17:05:36) <Bergzwerg> no one make crafters of combat characters anyway
(17:05:46) <loftar> But then again, it's a bit lame to be locked out of some things.
(17:05:57) <Rawrz> its not like you are locked out of it
(17:05:58) <loftar> Like I'm saying, it's kind of a delicate question.
(17:06:00) <deus> develop the early game more?
(17:06:01) <Rawrz> you just create a new character
(17:06:19) <Rawrz> at that point
(17:06:28) <Rawrz> its rather a question of how much time it takes to develop the character
(17:06:34) <loftar> We do entertain some ideas for specialization that are not at all easily alted around, however, but that don't necessarily "lock you out" of things either.
(17:06:45) <loftar> The ideas are still rather loose though, so I can't easily speak of them.
(17:06:52) <Bergzwerg> In my village we just shared crafters and miners
(17:07:01) <Rawrz> everyone pretty much does
(17:07:20) <Rawrz> i have access to so many accounts
(17:07:37) <loftar> >password sharing detected
(17:07:41) <loftar> >goes looking for banhammer
(17:07:51) <deus> >lost banhammer
(17:07:52) <Rawrz> you wont find such a hammer
(17:07:58) <deus> >wot a skrub
(17:08:10) <Bergzwerg> welp, I bet anyone use at least key alt
(17:08:52) <Bergzwerg> which is quite not fun
(17:09:15) <Bergzwerg> be a man walk with keys :---DDDDD
(17:09:29) <deus> do it
(17:09:32) <Bergzwerg> but I dont really think it matter in a long shot
(17:09:46) <Bergzwerg> matters*
(17:09:52) <loftar> More importantly, we are looking to make characters more varied in combat.
(17:10:24) <deus> spears?
(17:10:27) <loftar> I'd say our main sources of inspiration are MtG and Smash Bros.
(17:10:51) <Bergzwerg> two games I never played
(17:10:58) <deus> LOL
(17:11:01) <deus> nintendoids
(17:13:28) <deus> ANY variety?
(17:14:40) <loftar> I don't get that question.
(17:15:04) <deus> im saying your a nintendo fanboy
(17:15:20) <loftar> ... MtG sure isn't Nintendo.
(17:16:04) <deus> konami?
(17:16:14) <loftar> Magic the Gathering.
(17:16:17) <deus> whats the word for japan fanboy?
(17:16:28) <deus> oh thats a company in my state
(17:17:22) <deus> wizard thign right?
(17:17:52) <loftar> Wizards of the Coast, yes.
(17:24:55) <loftar> viewtopic.php?f=34&t=37562
(17:25:04) <loftar> Can someone plx tell me what an oathkill is? ^^
(17:25:21) <Rawrz> oh
(17:25:25) <Rawrz> oath them to your village
(17:25:27) <Rawrz> kill them
(17:25:35) <loftar> Just that?
(17:25:36) <Rawrz> yeah
(17:25:52) <Rawrz> kind of break the trust in trading or inviting new people
(17:25:52) <loftar> Ok
(17:28:24) <loftar> Yeah, sure. I just got the impression that it was some kind of exploit.

[TheMasterWolf]

Fun night, Loftar learned what oathkilling is

[RubyRed]

2nd time I read that, oddly I play (or have played) MTG and D&D alot... not doing it much past reading D&D books (3rd) atm. But it is a great spot to mine ideas lol.

[Flame]

UH... This chat text is weird and i feel like if i can give a Hint.

Loftar, this is a permadeath game and i think this is Haven soul, it should remains as it is. But also i think that most of the "problems" with the players is just that be "evil" is a lot better than be "kind". For many natural reason (advantages between humans, that can't be changed) BUT ALSO for LOTS of unnatural reasons, called glitch-bugs-cheats-unfair game mechanism.

Let's hope that the glitches and bugs will be fixed in Hafen, we can then talk of game mechanism.

Imho you should focus A LOT on build a world where everybody CAN, concretly, build and play the game that they want. So, who wanna be "kind" will have all the buildings/tactics needed to defend himself and to "build" his way to play.
And who like to be "evil" will have the same chances to fight the other, smash his way to play and "build" the one he likes.
This whould be a Fair game between players. Not because players are FAIR, but because the game is fair with the players.
There will always be an enemy, but i whould happily accept the challenge, knowing that i CAN build my way to play.

Real life have everything you need to copy this balance and you should really focus on this. The battle system is the smaller part of this, because often the kind people don't want to end up with a man to man fight. Now they are forced to, but reality don't forces you so much. This game is harder than reality XD

You have to add traps-building-sieges and all those defences and counterattak that the real man, in a real world, have created years by years. This will gives to Player the dice in theyr hand and you'll follow the "is up to you!" freedom of Haven.

This is not a blind suggestion to "build a realistic game!!!". I gives a fuck about realistic shit.
But in this game, the real world have a lot to teach to Haven.

[EPSIL0N]

I was curious if there is a FAQ page anywhere with regards to Hafen as I have a handful of those questions where it is silly to assume I am the first to want to ask but searching the various threads is not yielding results.

[DDDsDD999]

I was curious if there is a FAQ page anywhere with regards to Hafen as I have a handful of those questions where it is silly to assume I am the first to want to ask but searching the various threads is not yielding results.

If people didn't spam this thread with bull-shit, it might be readable. But people are stupid.